Fine Wine and Wrinkles: Honor Marks' Pro-Age Revolution

Siobhan Daniels [: 00:00:00

On today's show, I'm talking to Anna Marks, the founder of the magical midlife membership. She's helping women to redefine and refire their lives as they get older. Approaching 60 herself, she's a force to be reckoned with, a breath of fresh air and an inspiration to a lot of women. Something I discovered on our two week road trip through France in my motorhome. But before, before we get started, can I ask that you give us a follow on your podcast app or Instagram? Now let's get on with the podcast. Welcome to retirement. Rebel Life after 60. I'm your host, Siobhan Daniels.

Siobhan Daniels [: 00:00:40

Join me on a journey to meet inspiring rebels who've redefined retirement. Together, we'll explore new passions, triumphs over challenges, and discover the vibrant possibilities of life after 60. This is about living boldly, not just ageing. So, are you ready to rebel? Last week I spoke to the wonderful Annie Sturk, a woman in her 70s who's making the most of life. She challenges the misconceptions of what being old really means as a silverhead model, she tells people, just do it. An attitude that I love. If you've not heard our chats, then please do give it a listen. You can find it on any podcast platform or through my website, retirementrebel.

Siobhan Daniels [: 00:01:26

Co. Uk. Thanks so much for joining me, Anna, although I am in your house, in another room so that I can record this with you.

Honor Marks [: 00:01:34

Thank you so much for having me. And I've just got all little sugars, really, with you, that little introduction. So thank you for that. That's lovely.

Siobhan Daniels [: 00:01:40

But you are an inspiration to so many women and I've just spent two weeks with you in my motorhome, Dora the Explorer. And that's why I wanted you on the podcast, really, because I learned so much about you and myself and women of our age around late 50s, early 60s, who have got so many insecurities about themselves and are sort of repositioning their lives. And I found you so inspirational to talk to. But first of all, why on earth did you say yes to coming in my motorhome? To facing a fear and taking a risk at the good old age of 59?

Honor Marks [: 00:02:17

I think it's because people like you have inspired me, really, because you have one life and we are very grateful to be here. And I don't want to look back and think about all the things I should have done that I didn't do. And your story, I've read your book. I love it. And obviously I've met you and you're wonderfully one of my founder members of my magical midlife membership as well. Put that in there. But I thought, well, I'd like to have an adventure and also I needed a lift home, if we're honest. I need a lift home.

Honor Marks [: 00:02:50

Yeah.

Siobhan Daniels [: 00:02:50

Because we met, didn't we, at a lunch in London. And you jokingly said to me, we'd met once the year before and you jokingly said to me, hey, how about a lift home? And we just quite liked the stupidity of the idea really, didn't we?

Honor Marks [: 00:03:05

Yeah. I think also it was a challenge for you, wasn't it? I know you've done a trip in France before, but a big trip like this and you kind of embraced that challenge as well. So both of us were doing something new. You could say we were practical strangers, but I'm pretty confident. I just felt a gut feeling that it would work.

Siobhan Daniels [: 00:03:23

What did you hope to get out of it?

Honor Marks [: 00:03:25

I didn't have any expectations. I just thought we'd have a lot of fun. I got far more out of it than I thought I would. I didn't even cross my mind what I'd get out of it. Yes, we saw beautiful places, we went to amazing, gorgeous places in France that I've always wanted to go to or go back to. So that was a no brainer. But what I got out of it that I didn't expect to get out, which to me is the golden nugget, the piece of magic, was actually getting to know me and getting to know you and the conversations that we had and the discussions and we might not always initially agree with something, but actually I'm really receptive and open to things and I learned so much from you. So in the end, I feel like I'm your protege and you're my mentor in so many ways.

Honor Marks [: 00:04:14

I learned so much about so many things and you've opened my eyes. So I've grown. I really have grown. You've given me an awful lot. So it's far exceeded my expectations.

Siobhan Daniels [: 00:04:26

I mean, that's good for me to hear because one of the reasons I'm doing this podcast, retirement rebel life after 60, is because I want to help and inspire and get women to grow and get us all to talk about the kind of things that we actually want to do as we're in our fifty s, sixty s, seventy s, eighty s, ninety s and beyond. Because I think so often we're just clumped together as 50 plus and nobody really has that many inspirational figures. And I'm glad that both me and you are inspiring other women. But just take me back to your childhood and your life. And when you were growing up, what did you think of women who were in their late fifty s and sixty s and what did you think your life was going to be like?

Honor Marks [: 00:05:10

I honestly thought by this age I would be probably happily married, living in a wisteria covered cottage with 2.4 kids and who knows, maybe grandchildren too. I've never been particularly maternal, but you just have this image, don't you? It's all those Ian obligeon books I read, or Janet and John Ladybird books that kind of narrate how you think it's going to be. And yes, to me, I'm 59. That's old. That was old. And that would just be. That's it. It didn't even cross my mind that I would be travelling across country in a mojo home with a strange woman.

Siobhan Daniels [: 00:05:48

They don't come any stranger than me.

Honor Marks [: 00:05:51

The things I've done in the last year, realising that I'm very grateful to be here and I know that I'm inspiring women younger than me as well. I'm a role model to my daughter, to show her that actually what I thought at that age, when I was younger, is not actually what it's like at all. And I think we're very lucky in a way, because social media and those platforms have allowed us to share what we're doing. So my mother's generation certainly would not. My mom wouldn't have done this. She just wouldn't have done this. I love my mom. She's amazing.

Honor Marks [: 00:06:25

And she was my role model in some ways. She was quite ahead of her time, having her own business in those days, et cetera, et cetera. But she wouldn't have done something like this because one didn't. But it's true that there's more things available. Travel is easier. I would say it's cheaper than it ever used to be, but actually, I'm not so sure about that. But we are surrounded. We're slowly being surrounded by people that are showing us that actually it is just a number.

Honor Marks [: 00:06:52

And the only person that's stopping you from doing that is you.

Siobhan Daniels [: 00:06:56

How important do you think it is that people like your daughter and my daughter see women like us saying yes to things, facing fears and getting out there and actually doing it?

Honor Marks [: 00:07:06

I think it's so important. I wish I could go back to my younger self and tell her, just stop worrying and just do these things. Just feel the fear and do it anyway. I know it's a cliche, but it's a good one. I hope that my daughter, I'm pretty sure your daughter definitely is. But I hope my daughter, despite the eye rolls that she often gives me and calls me a weird, oh, I.

Siobhan Daniels [: 00:07:30

Know those very well.

Honor Marks [: 00:07:31

Oh, yes. But I hope that deep down she's proud of what I'm doing in my magical membership. I've got younger members. I remember asking one of the girls, why did you join this group? And she said, because I just want to know that life after 50, she told me, because she's in her 40s isn't over. And I love the fact that I've got women up into the age of 80 in my group because every sort of like in this decade needs the next decade to show them this is actually what life is like. This is living.

Siobhan Daniels [: 00:08:01

I know that feeling all too well because when I was in my mid fifty s, I was thinking, is this the beginning of the slowing down process? What next kind of thing? And I had no idea that I could feel as vibrant and as happy and as fulfilled as I'm feeling now. And that's why I want to take people on the journey with me. And you saying yes to coming with me and joining me on part of my journey was just fabulous for me. It was sort of reaffirming that what I'm doing is the right thing to do. And not only that, to see you embrace it and enjoy it and it to change your thought process about just possessions, for example, it's made you rethink, hasn't it?

Honor Marks [: 00:08:46

Absolutely. Going back on that point, all my life, I've never really known what I want to be when I grow up. And I still don't know what I want to be if and when I grow up. I've always felt that I haven't fulfilled my full potential. But for the first time in my life, I feel closer to it than ever. And I kind of think it's taken all those years to get to this place when I've got the experience, the confidence, the kudos, the gravitas, the knowledge that you kind of need with those years to be able to go and fill my full potential. So my story isn't ended. No one's story is ended until the day it ends.

Honor Marks [: 00:09:21

And there is so much I feel I've got so much more to do and give and I'm excited about that. I'm really excited about that. Whereas perhaps if you'd asked me 20 years ago, it would have been all doom and gloom. But now no, Frank, bring it on is what I say take me through.

Siobhan Daniels [: 00:09:37

The journey of where you've come from and how you've got to this place. Living in the south of France, running some beautiful jeets, something that we'll talk about in a minute but take me on the journey where have you come from? You were originally working in London, weren't you?

Honor Marks [: 00:09:51

Yes indeed. I'm actually from Kent but I did live in London and I had a house there and I had a big career there and recruitment and got fed up with that. I just was so uninspired by these people and this material world. So in some ways I started to come away from the big city life and had a few other jobs including a decluttering business, a silk loungewear business. But it was my then husband who actually said honour, let's shake it up, let's go do something different. Let's not wait. Everyone talks about moving to the south of France or doing other things when they retire. He said let's not wait till then, let's live our lives now.

Honor Marks [: 00:10:27

And I will be honest, I was a bit reluctant because I had a really lucky house, great lifestyle. I was just setting up the decluttering business. It was tricky for me. Didn't really want to leave my widowed mummy there either. I was very close so I came out of my huge. It was a huge comfort zone movement. It was a huge leap of faith and in my early forty s I basically sold up and we moved down to the south of France, rented somewhere whilst we looked for somewhere to won't honestly, if I'm honest, Hannah and Hart the first year I hated it. That transitional year was quite difficult for me.

Honor Marks [: 00:11:05

What was I doing? What had I done? Who does this? I've given up potential to earn decent money. I'm not going to ever earn that kind of money here and given up a beautiful house that was actually a pension for me. A big, big risk. But you know what? I did it. The world didn't stop turning on its axis and from that so many wonderful things have happened.

Siobhan Daniels [: 00:11:31

You and your husband split up though eventually, didn't you? And you've had a journey on your own as a single parent. That must have been tough for you.

Honor Marks [: 00:11:42

It was terrifying. And my knee jerk reaction at the time because my daughter was twelve, was to sell everything and go back to England. But then I thought, well, my daughter settled in school one and two, you can't just sell up by the way, it doesn't work like that and I've got some friends. I've got friends here and I just kind of thought that failure is not an option for me, so I have to carry on. I had a good business already. I built up a reputation, lovely network of friends, and I had a great lifestyle because funnily enough, when you live in the south of France, all your friends want to come and visit you. And I absolutely love that, actually. And I get quality time with people I adore.

Honor Marks [: 00:12:24

Whereas when I used to live in the UK, you'd see them for a quick lunch or quick dinner and it'd be a quick what have you and there wasn't quality. When you live with someone, it's as we know, Siobhan, it's the bits in between, really, where you're chatting and the magic happens. So I didn't want to give up that lifestyle. So it was hard. I was scared, but I just got on with it. We're women, we can do things like that.

Siobhan Daniels [: 00:12:46

How difficult was it for you, though, as a single mother, an english woman in France, trying to keep your business going, forge your way forward?

Honor Marks [: 00:12:57

I don't think it was that difficult because I'm just a roll my shirt sleeves up kind of woman and get on with it. It could be very lonely sometimes and quite isolating, particularly when you're running a business and something goes wrong. And my ex husband was a builder, so a floorboard, if somebody went through their floorboard, then he could fix it. I now have to find a tradesman. Not always easy, not always just like that. Speaking in another language, dealing with perhaps a bit of a misogynist kind of culture. A little bit. Although it is changing, it has improved.

Honor Marks [: 00:13:30

My French is not as. It's never been as good as it really should be. But I don't know, somehow I winged it. I winged it or wong it. I just did it. I was resourceful. I asked for help. I absolutely asked for help.

Honor Marks [: 00:13:44

I got loads of people to come and it's something called workaways. They come and live with you and they work with you, for you, with you, in exchange for food and lodging. So I got to meet people from all over the world and I got help. That's it. It's fine to ask for help.

Siobhan Daniels [: 00:14:00

Fast forward. As you're in your fifty s and you're going through the menopause, what impact did that have on you and the way that you think and your life? Did it have an impact or not?

Honor Marks [: 00:14:13

I don't think I was aware of it because I'm 59 now and I suspect I hit menopause at 51. At that same time I was dealing with my husband left me on my 50th. Right. Not great timing, not a good, great thing to do whilst we're on holiday. And I've been. Probably been perimenopause and who knows, maybe I can't remember which is a symptom of menopause. I know, but I thought I self grew, but maybe I didn't. Maybe these dafts and dealing with a teenager and dealing with difficulties with an ex husband, maybe that made life more difficult.

Honor Marks [: 00:14:52

But I didn't focus on that. That never defined me. It's never defined me, menopause, ever. And I feel that I'm probably posting menopause, but I'm pretty sure I have the symptoms of. I mean, I don't sleep throughout the night sometimes. I, like many women, forget what the hell I came into the room to do. Often I forget lots of things. But what happens when you get to our age, menopause or whatever, I just deal with.

Honor Marks [: 00:15:18

It doesn't define me. I'm bigger than that. But I've been lucky, perhaps I've been lucky, I think, for a lot of.

Siobhan Daniels [: 00:15:26

Women and I know for me it was a particularly difficult time. And I think what I love about you is you've created this group of women that actually helps a lot of women through that and posts that and gets women together, doesn't it? That they can actually talk about things and go, do you know what? That's what I feel, that's what I'm doing, that's what I'm thinking, that's what's happening to me. So just tell me about, how did it come about setting up the magical midlife membership?

Honor Marks [: 00:15:57

If I go roll it back a bit. My Jeep business was starting during lockdown. My jeep business obviously had a lot of problems. You weren't allowed to travel. So all my Jeep bookings started to get postponed and I thought, oh, my God, what am I going to do? I need to do something. My daughter's doing her baccalaureate online. I don't want her to see me being, oh, my God, what am I going to do? I need to be proactive. And I had a business coach and she suggested isoft doing some Instagram coaching.

Honor Marks [: 00:16:22

So I was on Instagram, on Instagram all the time and doing some coaching. And then one day, one of the girls, in fact, somebody that you know, Maria, who has a riyadh in Marrakesh, suggested honour because I did various courses, I wanted us girls to all get together. Let's do something at your jeets. So I kind of held, if you like, one of my own first women get togethers in my jeeps. I had hosted yoga and angel retreats before, but as a simply kind of host rather than facilitator. And off the back of that I started to organise other things.

Siobhan Daniels [: 00:17:00

The first one you did, though, what was that like? What was the atmosphere like? What did you think?

Honor Marks [: 00:17:06

It was fantastic. I am still extremely good friends with all of those women because I keep saying this, when women come together, magic happens. And we were all kind of around the same age in our fifty s and sixty s. One is nearly 70. Somehow we came through the cris of lockdown and COVID and all that together. We had a mutual kind of admiration for each other. And what I love and get from everybody is authenticity, and I think they got that from me as well. And so that evolved into me hosting retreats and I'm a networker, I love bringing people together.

Honor Marks [: 00:17:47

And again, my mentor, who told me to do the Instagram coach, she said, honour, you get people together for your retreats. You can do this online as well, because not everyone can get to the south of France, right? Not everyone can afford to get to south France, but they want to be part of a community and part of something special. So on January the first, 2023, I launched my magical midlife membership, and within about three to four weeks, I had nearly 100 members, which was overwhelming for me. Most of those founders, they're still there.

Siobhan Daniels [: 00:18:17

But it's a testament to you that so many women wanted to be in your gang, really. And I joined very early on and I don't join things like that, but I kind of wanted to be in your gang. I liked what you were doing, it resonated with me. But also, I like all kind of. You get guest speakers. I mean, what do you offer people in this group of women?

Honor Marks [: 00:18:40

Yes. Thank you. By the way, I'm terribly flattered that you are in my group and I was right at the beginning and it's a compliment to me. It means an awful lot to me that anyone who joins is so really what it is. It's online, but it can be in real life. And I encourage people to organise local things. We have weekly zoom chats so that people can catch up and we can talk about any subject or just chat about anything. But at least once and usually twice a month, I get very excited.

Honor Marks [: 00:19:08

I invite either guest experts and or inspirational women to come and talk to us about whatever a subject. You were a guest speaker, obviously, and I'm going to get you back in again, as well as to be one of our lovely inspirational speakers, because your life has moved on in the last year since you came and did that talk. And I have people, guest experts. It could be a sleep expert, it could be a nutritionist, it could be a movement coach, it could be a sex coach. I had somebody who came to talk to us about preparing for death, actually, which turned out to be not as morbid as it sounds, but things that you should take for granted, like, God forbid. I don't want my daughter to be worrying about what colour knickers you should be putting me on the day she buries me, little things like that.

Siobhan Daniels [: 00:19:52

But what I love as well, though, is the topics that you discuss. And it just gives people, women of that age, the opportunity to say what they feel, to explore what they feel, to find avenues to feel alive, and that they're not going in the wrong direction or to be inspired by others. And I think often, I particularly withdraw from life when I was going through the menopause, when I was feeling insecure, when I was feeling a lack of purpose. So to join a group of women like that and just sit on the fringes at first, is what I did, and just listen and then start that light bulb moment of thinking, oh, my goodness. That's what I was like. That's what I was thinking. Look at them now. I can do that.

Honor Marks [: 00:20:39

Yeah. Absolutely. All my experts are recorded, so when people can't come to the lives, they can listen to it later. But what's lovely is they are live and they are interactive, so people can ask questions, and it's a very safe place and everybody has a story. They think they don't, but they absolutely do. And every single body can support somebody else or be supported by somebody else. The value is what we can be for each other. And I have another kind of hashtag, which is, together we are quite simply, stronger.

Honor Marks [: 00:21:11

And I really believe that you haven't always walked in that person's shoes, necessarily, but by listening to their story, you might want to help somebody who's just about to walk in those shoes or has done. You can become a better friend, a better wife, a better girlfriend, a better mom, a better anything, a better partner, or just a better version of yourself by the stuff you learn. The other thing is, I really, truly believe, as we get older, actually, our circles, social circles, get a bit smaller sometimes. And it's really, I think, important to meet new people and open up your mind. I've opened up and learned so much in just the last two weeks by spending that time with you. And I've learned things about myself and I hope I've grown. There was still some educating to be done. I know that, and it will take time, but it will get there and I want other people to have some of that.

Honor Marks [: 00:21:59

And I think with all of that and in these groups, that's the magic of it all. It's just helping each other, supporting each other.

Siobhan Daniels [: 00:22:07

But when you say about growing, we've had some really heart to heart discussions, haven't we, in the motorhome over the last two weeks, in particular, about how we as a society see women when they get older, about being ageing or antiaging and pro ageing and positive ageing and all the kind of antiaging messages that are thrown at us from when we're very young. And I found that a stimulating conversation with you because we've not always agreed on what old is. What are your thoughts on that, about the antiaging message that we get and what we should actually be doing?

Honor Marks [: 00:22:47

Well, again, you have really massively kind of taught me stuff and made me realise things like, we've got good intentions, but actually we're using the wrong language. And it's funny, when I went to the bathroom just a minute ago and I saw a pot of cream, it said antiaging. It really made my blood boil. Good. How dare they? Oh, I'm going to do a post at some point. Ranting to beauty. I know I'm not the first and I won't be the last. How dare they? We're surrounded by people that don't even make it to our age.

Honor Marks [: 00:23:22

We should be so bloody grateful to be whatever age we are. I'm getting all chivalry now and angry about it. Perhaps two weeks ago it did annoy me, but now it really annoys me. Siobhan, you've done this to me. And I almost don't want to buy anything that says anti ageing because how bloody dare they?

Siobhan Daniels [: 00:23:46

But it's true. I mean, I for years actually sought out things that said antiaging and now I've come the whole way around and I think, do shout out about it, do put posts about it. The more of us that can do it, the more of us that vote with our feet, the more of us that challenge the beauty industry and the fashion industry and say, look, we're not antiaging, we're pro ageing. It is a privilege to be able to do that and we're all doing it. My sister, it would have been her birthday yesterday, she would have been 66 and she died at 53 and she didn't have that luxury to be able to age. And I do this and I bang that drum because, gosh, it's made me feel emotional. But I bang that drum because I want us to appreciate the beauty of what we're able to do. And we need to stop this antiaging message because what it's doing is actually stopping a lot of people living, a lot of youngsters from living because they start very young fighting something that is inevitable.

Honor Marks [: 00:24:50

Yes. And, you know, my thoughts on tweakments and stuff, like, know, I know we have a different perspective on that, but I do think it stems from, know, old school society and Hollywood movie directors saying once you get hit a certain age, you're a Hassan. So all the actresses facelifts and Botox will have to stay younger. And there's nothing wrong with being older, by the way. In fact, we're better when we're older because like I said earlier, we've got more to offer. We've done more. We're so bloody full of knowledge, experience, God. I mean, we are valuable.

Honor Marks [: 00:25:25

Like a good, fine wine, which we know about, right?

Siobhan Daniels [: 00:25:28

Yeah, we were trying a bit. Oh, my goodness. That night. We spent a couple of nights ago in the vineyard domain Jones. She runs a vineyard in the south of France. Try her wine, everybody. It is absolutely delicious. But she allowed us very kindly to park up the motorhome and to camp there and to sit there and talk.

Siobhan Daniels [: 00:25:49

And she is another awesome woman. I've got to get her on the podcast because her journey, buying vineyards and old vines and nurturing them into fabulous wines is incredible.

Honor Marks [: 00:26:02

And there's a point. She nurtures old vines. Other people would throw them up because there has been no old vines make fine wines, as she would say. And she's quite right. And she protecting the heritage. And even our vines are more valuable, actually, than younger vines.

Siobhan Daniels [: 00:26:22

So, looking back after our two weeks talking in the motome about positive ageing and pro ageing and challenging, antiaging, what message would you give to your daughter and to her friends about ageing?

Honor Marks [: 00:26:38

Yes, a good question. What would I message? It's not so much a message, it's an action, isn't it? Leading by example. Yes. My daughter's rolls eyes roll all the time. I don't think she's quite yet seen that image of me in my pyjamas with my great big red furry rat walking in the vine. I know guys will roll.

Siobhan Daniels [: 00:27:00

She'll be embarrassed if anybody hasn't seen it. You can go on Instagram, on Siobhan Shavoff, or on honestly, with honour. And you can see it's hilarious. Honour just strutting up through those ancient vines wrapped in this bright pink, fluffy. I don't know what you call it.

Honor Marks [: 00:27:18

Really, but you bought it.

Siobhan Daniels [: 00:27:20

Where did you buy it from? On our journey?

Honor Marks [: 00:27:22

I bought in Ild array on our trip, didn't I?

Siobhan Daniels [: 00:27:24

Oh, what a beautiful place that was as well.

Honor Marks [: 00:27:27

Well, I just think the message is that things get better. You get better as we mature. A bit like wine, actually. We just get better and better. But also don't wish your life away. I want my daughter to grow old gracefully and then eventually, like me, to grow old disgracefully, but more importantly, to grow old gratefully. And don't put shit in your face to try to be younger, because there's nothing wrong with being. Looking how you look.

Honor Marks [: 00:28:01

And our wrinkles, well, I hate my wrinkles. They're never going to change who I am.

Siobhan Daniels [: 00:28:06

There's nothing wrong with being old because as I've been banging on to you, haven't I? Every day. Old is good. Old is a positive.

Honor Marks [: 00:28:16

Wrinkles tell stories of laughter and all sorts of things. So like a tree, when you've got all those circles, it's telling a history and a story. It's okay if you have a plastic face. Whatever age. Whatever age, you can't see the happiness and the stories of your life. And the more stories you have as you get older, the more interesting conversationalists you make at dinner parties. I know.

Siobhan Daniels [: 00:28:43

But also on our journey in this last two weeks, in the motor, the interaction that we've had with hundreds and hundreds of women who've supported what we're doing because we're being authentic. I think that's what women want as well, is just to be able to age in an authentic way and not to feel those restraints and those self limiting beliefs that they've got because of what society says we should and shouldn't be doing. We've been acting like crazy women. But they have loved it and embraced it.

Honor Marks [: 00:29:14

They have. And I really hope that more people will just let it all go. Just let everything go and go and enjoy and live that life. Don't dream about it, do it. You have one life. You have a choice to make that choice and do. And as you talk about self limiting beliefs, well, you made me go into cold water in the Mediterranean yesterday. But you know what you said to me? You said honour as we were walking along to it.

Honor Marks [: 00:29:41

Stop thinking it's going to be cold, because then it will be cold. Start believing it's going to be actually okay. And I absolutely took that on board and changed my mindset and it really wasn't as bad as I thought, to be fair. The jellyfish did actually distract me quite a lot. I know you planted in there to do that. And it worked. And it worked. So again, I went into cold water thinking, oh, my God, I would just be able to icebot when I came out.

Honor Marks [: 00:30:06

And actually we were hanging around, didn't put our dry robes on, we were cool. Because it's all about mindset.

Siobhan Daniels [: 00:30:12

Yeah, it does show you. It is your mind, it is what you think. And I used to think that was a load of rubbish years ago. But I'm actually putting it in practise every day. When I'm afraid of things or when I want to push myself further to my limits further, I change my mindset and I kind of think, what's the worst that can happen? And I say yes to so many more things. And that's what I've loved about being with you. We didn't know each other. We've got to know each other.

Siobhan Daniels [: 00:30:41

But I've seen you doing things along the way that I knew instinctively you didn't want to do. But you've rolled up your sleeves, you've got on with it. Even setting up, going, getting the water, finding the electric points, paying for, just getting into campsites or parking places.

Honor Marks [: 00:30:57

Yeah, I did stop. There was one thing I couldn't do.

Siobhan Daniels [: 00:31:00

Right, I'm coming on to that. What was that then, Anna? What was the one thing?

Honor Marks [: 00:31:08

I had one job and I could not do it. The one job was to empty the toilet. And my justification was I'm going to try and not do any number twos in there. I don't feel so guilty sometimes. Needs must. I just couldn't do it. The first time I saw Siobhan do it, I was gagging so much, I'm sorry to say, a little bit of vomit actually came off my mouth.

Siobhan Daniels [: 00:31:30

I have never heard such a noise in my life. Tears going down your eyes, everything. But I know if we do another, when we do another trip, hopefully in Italy, with your mindset being that positive mindset, being know going in the sea was the first step. But I know that you will get to a stage at some point. You won't like it. I don't like it if I'm honest. But it has to be done. You will get on and you will do it.

Honor Marks [: 00:31:57

Yeah, well, we'll see about that. We'll see about that. I'll go back in the sea again. Don't make me do it.

Siobhan Daniels [: 00:32:05

So where do you go from here? You've got your magical midlife membership and you're getting these women together. Where do you see yourself going? Supporting women in the future and getting them to see the pro age message as opposed to the antiaging message I.

Honor Marks [: 00:32:22

Think it's all about. I mean, I would love to grow the membership and have more in real life. We do have lots of in real life meetups as well, people and my retreats and holidays with me and just getting women together and talking. Just talking and communicating and sharing. And that's what we need to do and I want to do get. The more we do it, bit by bit, others will join in and it will roll on down, won't it, to the next. The women who are five years younger, us ten years younger, us 15, and then our girls, and more importantly boys as well. We got to talk about the boys too, not just about the women.

Honor Marks [: 00:33:00

Actually, I always ask this question, do men worry about getting old? I don't know. Or how do they feel old? We don't talk about them.

Siobhan Daniels [: 00:33:08

No, I honestly think there is a parallel. The guys the same age as us go through the same emotions and everything. And I hope that there are people out there supporting them the way that more and more women, our tribes, are getting together and supporting each other. But I think I feel I've got to heal myself before I can reach out and help other people. So that's why I am focusing predominantly on women and older women and women in their sixty s. I wanted to see the figure 60s because so many women, it's that bridge going from 50 to 60 they really fear. And you yourself are now 59. You're coming into 60.

Siobhan Daniels [: 00:33:49

Seeing women like me, has that helped you?

Honor Marks [: 00:33:52

It really has. And actually, in my membership, there are a lot. I would say the average age is probably around 60. And I see we have a friend, don't we, Mitchie, who set off a business just three years ago. She spent her 60th birthday in India on business. And sitting in front of the charge on her own. It takes all the fear away when you see these incredible women, people like you, people like her in their 60s going, creating businesses or writing books or having adventures and forging ahead. And actually it makes it incredibly less scary.

Siobhan Daniels [: 00:34:31

And that's why I wanted to get together the group of rebellious women and retirement rebels on a platform like this. Because I know nearly every woman knows of some woman that's doing something incredible. In her sixty s, seventy s, eighty s. And that I wanted to have a platform that we can bring them all here, we can all hear them talk about it. We can sort of take from their experiences to make our lives that much better, as opposed to sitting there and fearing something that actually can be your best decade.

Honor Marks [: 00:35:02

I agree. One of my greatest joys at the moment is one of my more recent members to the membership is 80. And she joined the membership. She came to our lunch. She's joining the retreat in Marrakesh. She's probably going to come on one of my retreats here in France at 80. She's living that life. Nothing's going to stop her or slow her down, I can tell you.

Honor Marks [: 00:35:25

And that's inspiring, too. That's inspiring.

Siobhan Daniels [: 00:35:27

But also, she's not an exception. There are a lot of women in their 80s doing that kind of thing, but we just haven't had the platform for people to showcase it and to give examples and to give inspiration to others. So hopefully more and more of us will do this. But one thing you and I have encountered is the fact that we're told time and time again that people only want to see celebrities doing this. And I fight that tooth and nail so angrily when you and I approach people to see if they wanted to record us doing our trips as two normal women, late 50s, early 60s, just being an example for others. The interaction we've had on social media shows, that they want to see, that they want to see the authentic woman.

Honor Marks [: 00:36:13

If I had a pound for every time someone said, you two are fabulous, you should be on the television, goodness me, we'd be rolling in it now.

Siobhan Daniels [: 00:36:21

But they want the celebrities. What can we do about that? That's also a bit. For me, it feels like the cosmetic companies telling us, you want antiaging. We need people to somehow get the message out there that actually we want to see more ordinary people doing their ordinary things, which sometimes can be exceptional.

Honor Marks [: 00:36:40

And the other thing is that some of the celebrities, unless they're kind of really old school, these new school reality star celebrities, what celebrity? About these people that aren't even. That's another story. Don't even let me go there. I think one thing that people can do, but I suspect it's not going to happen, is stop watching those shows of celebrities. The ratings will come down, then maybe they'll realise it, put it where it hurts, or everybody.

Siobhan Daniels [: 00:37:04

I'm not celebrity bashing. I don't want it. That's not what it's about. But I just say please, people take on board. It's the authenticness. That's why I've got thousands of followers. Why you've got thousands of followers? Because people, and they say to me, please don't change. Don't sugarcoat it.

Siobhan Daniels [: 00:37:21

When we started doing this interview today, I just said, oh my goodness, I look all washed out without my lipstick and things like that. And you said, do you want to borrow some of my red lipstick? And I went, no, because actually this is what I would look like. This is what I'm like today. And I'm just showing the authentic me as opposed to putting on a mask, because I want people to think this is what I look. This is what I look like all the time. And I feel good actually about this. But every now and then I doubt myself because I think, what will other people think? I'm still like that. So I think the more authentic we are and the more we're out there running around in our pyjamas, in a vineyard, the more we can say to other people, you can do this, it's okay, don't worry.

Honor Marks [: 00:38:01

Absolutely. And I'm always doing stories without makeup. I've got to put some lipstick and mascara on, but I love it too. But I mostly don't wear makeup. And when you get that story on Facebook or Instagram and it catches you with your face half like that, obviously the minute you press on it, you start being animated, I think, oh God, that's awful. But that's what I look like. That's who I am. What we look like doesn't reflect on the person we are.

Honor Marks [: 00:38:30

The person that we are is what.

Siobhan Daniels [: 00:38:31

Counts inside and that's what people want to see. So if anybody wants to come on one of your retreats, how can they do that?

Honor Marks [: 00:38:41

I have a couple of websites, actually, people. If it's for sort of normal Jeep bookings, you could go to my Maison de lahosh.com website. If it's a retreat, they are on that website too. But on my honestlywithhonor.com website, you've got my retreat and my membership and I want people to just DM me, send me an email, ask me as many questions as you want and I will answer all your questions. I love chatting and connecting with people. It's fantastic. It's nice to get to know them.

Siobhan Daniels [: 00:39:11

And you do a good job doing that. This podcast is called Retirement Rebel Life after 60. I love rebellious people and I love talking to rebellious people and bringing rebellious people together. My question to you, honour, is when is the last time that you felt like you were a rebel or felt that you'd been really rebellious, or have you ever.

Honor Marks [: 00:39:33

That's a very good question, and I don't think I have, but my daughter would probably say, mummy, going out to put the rubbish in the bins in your pyjamas yesterday was probably not a bit rebellious for someone of your, I don't know, staff for you. I don't know if I've done anything rebellious. It depends how you define it. I think some people would argue giving up a perfectly beautiful home and good job opportunities to move to south of France, not knowing what the hell you're going to do or where you're going to live, actually was probably rebelling against a normal kind of, I say normal inverted commas life that maybe had been a bit rebellious. I did that in my early 40s, so maybe going on an adventure with you is a bit rebellious. Maybe I should have been here doing some gardening or something because the garden mess, but I hate gardening, so if anyone wants to come here and do some gardening for me, welcome. I don't know what defines a rebel. I think rebel is doing something that you want to do and not really caring what other people think about that.

Honor Marks [: 00:40:40

As long as it doesn't hurt anybody. That's the most important thing.

Siobhan Daniels [: 00:40:46

I'm really glad that you were rebellious and decided to come on the trip with me, though, because I know that I've sat almost like another sister. I know that because we had that intensity of time together, driving for hours and talked. We connected on a far deeper level than I think. Like you were saying before you moved from London, that superficial. Shall we meet for lunch? Shall we meet for coffee? And it's a quick half hour.

Honor Marks [: 00:41:13

Exactly that. Exactly that. And it's interesting, we are a bit like sisters now. We have our little bickers. But that's, to me, the biggest compliment you cannot have, I don't think. An honest, authentic friendship, if you agree on everything all the time. I've never believed that.

Siobhan Daniels [: 00:41:31

Do you think that we become more rebellious the older we get?

Honor Marks [: 00:41:35

I think. Am I allowed to swear on here?

Siobhan Daniels [: 00:41:38

Yeah, I think so. Or we might have to believe it.

Honor Marks [: 00:41:41

We just give less fucks.

Siobhan Daniels [: 00:41:44

We might have to bleep that, but bleep.

Honor Marks [: 00:41:47

We give less bleeps as we get older. I think we just do. Once upon a time we might have called it eccentric, but no, I don't think it is. I just think it's. What have we got to lose? As long as you don't hurt anybody by not doing something that you want to do, the only person you're hurting is you. So rebellious or just living life? I don't know, but I love it. I love the word rebel. And if I can be a rebel, I'd love to be a rebel.

Honor Marks [: 00:42:14

Please make me more rebellious. I want to be a rebel.

Siobhan Daniels [: 00:42:17

So what would you say to anybody who's like you, 59, approaching 60, what would you say to them about being in your 60s or approaching your 60s? What are your thoughts about it all? Are you fearful? Are you optimistic?

Honor Marks [: 00:42:34

I am less and less fearful. I am more and more optimistic. And the reason being is because I surround myself with people like yourself and many other women a lot. In my membership, on my retreats I meet these women. I hear their stories, they think they haven't got stories, but trust me, they do and they humble me. They put my life into perspective. I see where they've walked and how they've come on. And for me it's about surrounding yourself with good people.

Honor Marks [: 00:43:04

That is how you're going to get through, I think anything really, and believing in yourself and just again, it's a mindset. You can say, oh, I don't want to do this, or you could say, I do want to do this.

Siobhan Daniels [: 00:43:14

So it's all about changing, like emptying the toilet.

Honor Marks [: 00:43:21

Finish this podcast now. Hello. I don't understand you, but what a.

Siobhan Daniels [: 00:43:28

Way to end that strong believing in yourself and don't self limit and age as positively as you can.

Honor Marks [: 00:43:37

I absolutely do believe that. And there is another little thing you can do to help yourself a bit is kind of fake it till you make it in a way. And what I mean by that is a boss once said to me, I said to him, I want to be a director one day. He says, well, start thinking and dressing and acting like a director. So start thinking, acting like that. Empowered 60 plus women or 70 plus women that you're going to be. Be that person, walk in those shoes as if you already are and it eventually will just kind of, it becomes natural. I don't know what the word you metamorphos into it.

Honor Marks [: 00:44:14

That's the word I'm looking for.

Siobhan Daniels [: 00:44:15

I found my voice and my inner warrior through behaving like that. I started doing it. I was doubting myself when I was doing it, but I just thought, this is what I want, this is what I want my life to be and it has become that. So yes, I thoroughly agree with what you said there and I think there's.

Honor Marks [: 00:44:32

Nothing wrong with winging it. There is no one person that's done it right ever. There is no rules. There's no rules. You set your own rules and if it doesn't work, you try again. You cannot be successful without failing in a way. And just try it. Just wing it.

Honor Marks [: 00:44:49

Let it go. Have a go.

Siobhan Daniels [: 00:44:51

Oh I've absolutely loved talking to you for the last two weeks, especially on the podcast. I can't wait for other women to listen to this and just to hear you and your enthusiasm for life. And I hope they get in touch with you for your magical midlife membership and your jeets. But just before we go, tell me if they want to be in touch with you, what are your social media addresses for them? And we'll put it in the link as well.

Honor Marks [: 00:45:16

Thank mean all my websites are on my link tree, in my bio, on my Instagram account. So actually if you go to at honesty with honour, if you go to my Instagram account and look on the link tree, it's all there. Or just send me a DM. That's the best. I love talking to people. So come and send me a DM direct message. People that don't know what a DM is because there are people that don't know what see ya. See ya.

Honor Marks [: 00:45:40

Thank you so much.

Siobhan Daniels [: 00:45:43

I hope that you enjoyed that conversation with Anna Marks. She really made me think more about ageing, having travelled for two weeks with her in my motorhome through France before we recorded the podcast and chatted to her about numerous issues surrounding getting older, I took away from this interview that those conversations have helped her to form her own strong views about the harmful effects on women of the anti ageing messages. She wants to be part of the change to push the pro age message and that makes me incredibly happy. She also taught me that our value lies more in what we do and how we behave with others, not what we look like on the outside. I'm more than determined than ever now to show my true, authentic self as I continue to campaign against antiaging products and messages, especially to younger women who need to have older role models. All in all, I love the rebellious side of honour and I'm more determined than ever to surround myself with my gorgeous, rebellious tribe of women. Next week I'll be speaking to the financial expert Diane Watson, author of the book she can prosper. She helps women to sort out their finances to enable them to feel more empowered as they get older.

Siobhan Daniels [: 00:47:03

Thank you so much for joining me on today's retirement. Rebel Life after 60 I'm truly grateful for your time and your willingness to embark on this journey with me. If today's conversation sparks something within you, or if you've your own rebel story to share, I'd love to hear from you. Please reach out through our social media channels or email and let's keep the conversation going. Email us on podcast at retirementrebel. Co. Uk. And remember, if you found value in our time together today, consider sharing this episode with a friend who might also enjoy and benefit from our retirement rebel community.

Siobhan Daniels [: 00:47:41

Spreading the word helps us grow and continue to challenge the narrative around life after 60. All of our details can be found on Retirementrebel. Co. Uk. Retirement Rebel Life after 60 year's written and hosted by me, Siobhan Daniels and produced by the incredibly talented Matt Cheney. Join me again next week for another episode. Until then, keep embracing your inner rebel and living life to the fullest. Bye for now.