Catholic School Lessons to Catwalks: Annie Stirk’s Ageless Adventure

Siobhan Daniels [: 00:00:00

On today's show, I'm talking to Annie Sturk, who's an amazing woman in her 70s. She's challenging the misconceptions of what later life is actually like. Despite retiring at 67, she seems even busier nowadays than ever. We talked about how she became a silver haired model and we spoke about why her mantra is just do it. Something that I absolutely love. Before we get started though, can I ask that you give us a follow on your podcast app or Instagram. Now let's get on with the podcast. Welcome to retirement.

Siobhan Daniels [: 00:00:36

Rebel Life after 60. I'm your host, Siobhan Daniels. Join me on a journey to meet inspiring rebels who've redefined retirement. Together, we'll explore new passions, triumphs over challenges, and discover the vibrant possibilities of life after 60. This is about living boldly, not just ageing. So, are you ready to rebel? Last week I spoke to the wonderful Susie Grant, aka alternative ageing. She spoke about not letting negative attitudes stop you from achieving anything you want to as you get older. She firmly believes that age is irrelevant and we need to get the most out of our lives, something she's definitely doing in her 70s.

Siobhan Daniels [: 00:01:20

If you've not heard our chats, please give it a listen. You can find it on any podcast platform or through my website, retirementrebel. Co. UK. Good morning to you.

Annie Stirk [: 00:01:31

Good morning, Siobhan, lovely to meet you.

Siobhan Daniels [: 00:01:33

I'm absolutely thrilled that you're here to talk to me. I cannot wait to find out more about you. But one thing I do love is that you're an inspiration to so many older women. How important is it to you to feel like an inspiration to older women?

Annie Stirk [: 00:01:48

Well, it's really important because I think all of us aspire to other people, don't we? All of us look to other women particularly and think, well, yeah, she's done that and that's something I want to do or try or whatever, so I'm just going to give it a jolly good go. And if she can do it at kind of mid 70s, so can I. Hope it's that. What I don't want to do is for people to look at me and think, well, it's all right for her because sometimes, as we all know, life can appear kind of quite lucky for some people. And yet, to be sure, there have been lucky breaks. But it's not all about luck. A lot of it's hard work, hard work, as you know, and for lots of women it is. So I don't want it to be, well, it's all right for her.

Annie Stirk [: 00:02:46

I would very much hope that women are inspired.

Siobhan Daniels [: 00:02:49

Let's go back to the very beginning, though. You're a fellow Yorkshire woman. And when I was setting up this interview, we found out we both went.

Annie Stirk [: 00:02:56

To the same school. I know. How spooky is that? Well, it was on the Facebook group and someone had spotted you, hadn't they, being interviewed on the telly and posted it. And my sister saw it. She said she came to an event we organised last year. She said, I've got just the woman for your next event. She could remember about the van and she could remember something about retirement. I said, gosh, was it Siobhan? And she said, yeah, that's it, that's it.

Annie Stirk [: 00:03:29

And I just thought, what a spooky moment that was.

Siobhan Daniels [: 00:03:32

So that was Notre Dame Grammar school with the nuns.

Annie Stirk [: 00:03:35

Yeah. I can give you a few years there, Siobhan.

Siobhan Daniels [: 00:03:40

Now, you also. But you're my inspiration. You see, this is why I so wanted to talk to you. It's really important to be able to have people to aspire to. And that's what I hope I am for women in the. You are for women in the 70s because we often just get clumped together with 50 plus and that's it. So we're showing each decade how vibrant we are. And you also came from a big family.

Siobhan Daniels [: 00:04:06

I'm one of eight and you're one of eight as well. How did you notice?

Annie Stirk [: 00:04:10

Seven.

Siobhan Daniels [: 00:04:12

Sorry, one of seven. How did you feel that the roles of the boys and the girls in the family differed in those days?

Annie Stirk [: 00:04:20

Massively different. Yeah. The boys got away with murder. I have two brothers. One, Greg, has sadly died, a few years ago now. But they both played rugby on a Saturday. They went to Leeds Grammar school, the pair of them, and on a Saturday morning. It was a real rigmarole, just making sure they got to their rugby match on time with clean boots, a big full friar, big Yorkshire breakfast in their bellies and everything else in their uniform was ironed and pressed.

Annie Stirk [: 00:04:53

And that was the job of us girls. I mean, it's terrible, really, isn't it? Every morning was taken up, making sure the boys were all right. And when we did anything, I don't remember them sort of downing tools and helping us. But that's the way it was, just the way it was. It seems really archaic now. Well, it was really archaic, wasn't it? I know.

Siobhan Daniels [: 00:05:15

And that's why it's important for women nowadays, I think, to be finding their voices and to be showing the role models of women and sexism and challenging sexist attitudes. And I think we do a good job of doing that. But let's go back to your working life. When did you first start working? What were your experiences?

Annie Stirk [: 00:05:34

Well, I started as a teacher, as a home economics teacher, actually. And I didn't move very far from Leeds because the college in Leeds, it was part of Leeds poly in those days, it's now Leeds met, and it was a really good college and a really good course. So there was actually, apart from getting away from home, there was no real reason to not go to the college in Leeds. So I did and did the three year teach training course and then I got a job pretty much straight away at a school in West Yorkshire. And I actually loved teaching. I just felt totally comfortable in the classroom. I really loved it, loved being with the kids, loved teaching the subject. And then had our two kids, Ed and Sarah, and then wanted to get back to work and do something, but not full time, fairly quickly.

Annie Stirk [: 00:06:24

So I started to do a little bit of work, a little bit of work at Ilka College on their teacher training course. And then I started to get. Funny how these things happen, isn't it? I started to get involved in a bit of radio. I got a job at a local agricultural college and organising part time courses, and I got in touch with Radio York, as you do, and know, could they come and help to promote the courses? So they sent Chris Choi, who I know Chris now works for ITN, is their consumer correspondent, and he was at York uni and doing media and he was working at Radio York. So he rang me up one day after he'd been out to find out all about the courses and just said, look, I could do with somebody on a Saturday morning on my show to talk about food. A bit of a shopping guide. Snappy, happy shopping guide. Are you up for it? And I was like, oh, I don't know whether I can.

Annie Stirk [: 00:07:19

I've never done radio before and I think that started the sort of pattern of, well, do you know what? I've been asked to do some radio. I've never done it before in my life. Scared to death, the whole prospect of it, but weirdly excited at the same time.

Siobhan Daniels [: 00:07:34

I know exactly what you mean.

Annie Stirk [: 00:07:36

It's a funny feeling, it's a good feeling, isn't, know, scared and excited at the same time. So I just thought every penny for pound and did it. And I remember the first time I took the radio car out to York market, and when I came back, honestly, she went, I was as high as a kite on life it was just the most amazing feeling. And I thought, oh, this is amazing. I'd like to do a bit more. So that started years and years and years. I still do bits and pieces at Radio York as an expert on various subjects and the paper review. So it still continued and then, yeah, started to do a bit of food on chinese television as it was then.

Siobhan Daniels [: 00:08:26

Oh, goodness, that's a blast from the.

Annie Stirk [: 00:08:28

Past, do you remember? And it just kind of went from there. But the lucky break came in telly, when I'd sent my CV to ITBs this morning and said, I would like to come and cook on the telly with Susan Brooks.

Siobhan Daniels [: 00:08:51

That was a very brave thing for you to do, though, at that time.

Annie Stirk [: 00:08:54

Well, it was a stupid thing, really. Wasn't know, just some unknown Yorkshire laugh who fancies a chances on a network TV programme. Get a like, I think that's brilliant. But anyway, didn't hear anything, obviously. But then out of the blue one day I got a call and it was from one of the producers on the show, and the home economist had left and they were looking for a home economist, food stylist for the show. They asked me to go along and take along. It was for the sort of autumn term, if you like, and they asked me to take along the ideas for dishes and project subjects that we could do up until Christmas, which I did. So while I was there, they set about three of them in motion, and then I had to go and see the editor and he said to me, well, yeah, we'd like to offer you the job.

Annie Stirk [: 00:09:51

And it was then. But it was a six week trial.

Siobhan Daniels [: 00:09:55

You must have been so excited.

Annie Stirk [: 00:09:57

Well, I was excited, but it was like a six week trial. But the other thing was, I'd just accepted a job at York college as a homec lecturer, and it was a year's contract. So it was just that good catholic girl don't want to let anybody down.

Siobhan Daniels [: 00:10:14

I know that feeling of guilt.

Annie Stirk [: 00:10:16

We know all about that, don't we? So I said to this editor, I said, well, I've just taken this job and accepted it. It means six weeks, what happens? Kind of put my hands in the air and he said, well, we might not like you, you might not like us. Remember those words? But he said, that's the offer. Hate it or leave it. So I took it, obviously, and made the most sort of difficult call, probably I've had to make to say to the college, look, I'm really sorry. And they were brilliant about it. They were so excited. God, you must do it.

Annie Stirk [: 00:10:52

Of course, you must just get on with it. And that one moment that yes to something that seemed impossible kind of opened up what, in effect, has been a huge part of my life since that moment.

Siobhan Daniels [: 00:11:07

I'm a great believer in say yes more to things. Especially the older I get, the more I feel like that, which is very similar to your mantra of just do it. So you spent years, what was it, about 35 years in the media and TV, finally decided to retire. At what age?

Annie Stirk [: 00:11:24

I was 67 when I retired. And I always used to get. Because in the job that I was doing, kind of meeting a lot of people over the years, and then if you're on telly a bit, people know you. I just found that for the years leading up to that, I'd meet people in the supermarket or up a street in our local town and go, have you not retired yet? Oh, you're still working? And I'm thinking, yes, still working. No, I haven't retired yet. But it gave me a bit of a complex, stupidly, because I just thought, do I look past it, sit in a rocking chair for the next ten years?

Siobhan Daniels [: 00:12:09

But you know what? The situation for a lot of women is that they feel that they're forced to retire, don't they, when they don't want to retire.

Annie Stirk [: 00:12:17

Yeah, no, I think that's right. I did definitely feel some pressure. And then people were saying, well, you and Ken could have a really good time doing all sorts, know stuff together. So you feel you're kind of letting the side down. Basically, what was the big thing for me was I was having a really good time working, and I actually loved my job. And I was, like, we mentioned luck earlier. I was very lucky in that I did have a job that didn't feel like work. I mean, it was very hard work, but it didn't feel like work.

Annie Stirk [: 00:12:53

And I didn't want to get off the roller coaster, basically. I just kept putting it off. In fact, Ken retired sooner than I did. He retired about three years before I did, which was great.

Siobhan Daniels [: 00:13:09

Were you afraid that retiring meant that you would be slowing down?

Annie Stirk [: 00:13:13

Well, I think people did think that it meant that you were slowing down. What decided me in the end, though, I had my own PR business called absolutely food, and it was great. We had a lot of success with small businesses, food producers, chefs, products, things that were quite small scale, really. But they all had a great story. So we managed to get them all in the press, which was what I did, what happened to me, and what I love doing for other people. But in the end, as the business grew. It just became too much about the business and then the pressure stumped, because things happen. One of my team, who had been with me for a long time, moved to another job.

Annie Stirk [: 00:14:02

It was a promotion that she couldn't turn down, really, so she moved and then it just felt difficult. It just felt difficult. And actually, our three older grandchildren lived down in the West Midlands. And when we used to travel away to see them at the weekend, my head was always full of problems about client issues and deadlines and things that just needed sorting over the weekend. And my head was always full of either what to do next, a deadline or a problem. And I just felt, in the end, I didn't want to wake up on a Monday morning anymore with problems in my head. I wanted a bit of free space to enjoy life. But I wasn't worried about retiring.

Annie Stirk [: 00:14:54

Even when the decision in my head was made, I was actually really worried because there was a lot of time to fill and, like a lot of my friends, I didn't have many hobbies. That was difficult. A lot of my friends travel a lot. Well, look at yourself.

Siobhan Daniels [: 00:15:15

I'm loving it. So how did you go from food to fashion?

Annie Stirk [: 00:15:21

Well, again, a stroke of luck. I remember it was a February day and I was growing, as you do adverts on Facebook. Fancy being modelled, no experience required. So they wanted you to send a photograph, sent the photograph in and they said, oh, yeah, no, fantastic. There's me imagining I'm going to be the next Helen mirror. Of course, why not? So it was basically, they wanted you to go for a photo shoot and the photos were actually really nice. Surprisingly, I was quite pleased with them. And the photo shoot opened doors to all sorts of things.

Siobhan Daniels [: 00:16:04

Your family gave you a present, didn't they, as well, of some kind of photo shoot?

Annie Stirk [: 00:16:09

They did, yes. I wanted a photo shoot to get to as a present for my 70th birthday, so they organised it and it was in Leeds. And coincidentally, the photographer was working with meatless farm, a vegan company, and they were doing some packaging, advertising, and they wanted to use an older woman to promote the brand. They wanted me to become Granny Annie, which I am a granny. Anyway, so Granny Annie was born.

Siobhan Daniels [: 00:16:44

So you were the poster girl?

Annie Stirk [: 00:16:47

I appeared on billboards all over the country, which was the most bizarre thing. It hits on the head. Any aspirations of being on a billboard looking kind of dead glam.

Siobhan Daniels [: 00:17:01

But that's fabulous, though, that you were there as sort of the poster, billboard, poster girl in your 70s out there, so people can see examples of glamour and what we can be like and what we are like and how we're ageing realistic images. That is a big problem, isn't it, the way that ageing and older people are depicted. I know people say it's improving, but I still think we've got a heck of a long way to go.

Annie Stirk [: 00:17:28

I agree with you, Siobhan. There is a lot of work to be done and I think. I don't know whether anybody's listening. I don't know whether the right people are listening. My thought has always been, when I go into any of the shops anywhere, I don't see a representation of a woman my age. I might see kind of 2030 year olds wearing nice yoga gear, but where's the woman who looks like me, who still goes to yoga, still goes to pilates, still wears those leggings and bright tops and gym gear, but we don't see ourselves represented at all. They're quite happy to have us promoting funeral parlours and high feet chairs and.

Siobhan Daniels [: 00:18:21

Rocking chairs and wrinkles from the back. But my thing is we do need to lobby the media and the advertising agencies and there are some that take it on board. But then again, I still feel it's an element of tokenism, like, oh, gosh, we need to be seen to have an older person in the shop. But then when you actually go onto their websites and you look about more, that woman seems to have disappeared. They're not there and I want to see them. When I go in the shops and I find now shopping the experience for me when I'm going in and out the shops, I'm getting angrier and angrier, thinking, where am I?

Annie Stirk [: 00:19:01

Well, we're not there. And I totally agree with you. It's tokenism. And I just think, are the brands, are the advertisers, what are they scared of? They seem a bit nervous about it all.

Siobhan Daniels [: 00:19:15

I think it's important we get the intergenerational conversation going between the young and the old, because a lot of the young people in the advertising agencies, I don't think they get it. I really don't think they get it. And I think we need to have more workshops together with older and young people saying, this is what we want, this is what you're giving us, and that they aren't meeting in the middle.

Annie Stirk [: 00:19:37

Yeah. No, they're absolutely not. And I think that conversation idea is great because until we can have those conversations, it's not really going to move on. They do use some older, well known faces, but that's the point, isn't it? They are well known faces and they appear in everything. So it really is time that the real older 60, 70 year olds were represented as well.

Siobhan Daniels [: 00:20:08

I mean, it impacts on women's self esteem, doesn't it? You feel that you're not worthy of being seen when you're not seeing yourself. It's sort of a self fulfilling prophecy for a lot of women. When I retire, I'm going to disappear in the background and I say, when you age, you don't bathe, you don't go in the background, you retire, you refire. Let's be seen, let's be heard.

Annie Stirk [: 00:20:31

Yeah, no, absolutely. And I think we do need a bit of a campaign. We do need a plan of action, don't we, Siobhan, to sort of get the message through, get the message over. I don't know whether we need to go and be standing outside the shops.

Siobhan Daniels [: 00:20:46

Well, maybe we do, honestly, I think maybe we do. And that is exactly why I have started retirement. Rebel life after 60 podcast because I want more of us. I want people to contact me, I want to know what they think. I want to know what they want us to lobby about, to talk about. Will they join us en masse if we say we're going to go to a shopping centre one day and get our voices heard? Because I know, we both know the lovely Rachel Peru. She's in her late fifty s and she's a model like you, but she's all about body confidence and body image and I know she's been going in and out of shops and actually marking down who's representing us and who isn't. And that's brought it on my radar even more.

Siobhan Daniels [: 00:21:29

So maybe more of us need to be doing that.

Annie Stirk [: 00:21:31

Yeah, no, I think we do. I think we need a campaign. We need to plan a campaign to get out there in the shops and just show what we're made of, really. And I think we all scrub up really well, don't we, when we've got.

Siobhan Daniels [: 00:21:49

Takes a bit longer nowadays, but I think I do. I still scrub up well.

Annie Stirk [: 00:21:54

We can look as gorgeous as the 30 year old, can't we? So come on, advertisers and brands, just let us have a piece of the action.

Siobhan Daniels [: 00:22:03

I say, because I also say it's important that we do use our voices to instigate change, isn't it?

Annie Stirk [: 00:22:10

It's really important. We're in a great position to be able to do that. And a lot of us are also very well connected to a lot of other women of similar age who want the same things. So I think between us, we are a really strong body who can affect change and get things moving for all our sakes. And then hopefully, it won't be just a token campaign that the brands and advertisers do. It'll be a regular thing. We'll be used to seeing our age group fully represented in the media.

Siobhan Daniels [: 00:22:49

Well, I mean, there are so many of us and research is showing more and more of us are going to be over 65 in the next few years. They need to start listening to us.

Annie Stirk [: 00:22:58

They absolutely do.

Siobhan Daniels [: 00:23:00

We want to see the fun in life, don't we? I mean, do you think that you have more fun now than you used to have in your thirty s and forty s? Because I do.

Annie Stirk [: 00:23:08

Yeah. Well, you definitely do it down the highways and byways in your van are very obvious in Dora the explorer. No, it's fantastic. I think maybe I didn't have as much fun as I should have done when I was following my career. I was too much head down trying to, trying to be successful and earn a living and get the job done. It was exciting, but it was also, I also found it quite hard work as well. Doing things on telly takes no prisoners and in the media takes no prisoners, does it? So it was very difficult.

Siobhan Daniels [: 00:23:50

No, I agree with you totally. And I think when you're in your thirty s and forty s, you're thinking, I'm going somewhere and you're just focusing on that. And then actually when you get there, when you get to your late fifty s and your sixty s and you think, is this it? And you sort of repurpose your life, don't you? And I think that's a time where a lot of women, maybe because of the menopause and situations, they lose their confidence, don't they? And they're fearful of grabbing life. And I think we're both showing, actually, you can grab life, you can live a better life and you can have so much more fun.

Annie Stirk [: 00:24:25

Oh, you can. I mean, I remember when I retired, one of the things, and it was a really simple thing that I love doing on a summer today. I retired in the February and I just loved, as the spring evolved, I just loved opening the back door and sitting on the step in the sunshine, drinking morning cup of tea and didn't have anywhere to go. That was lovely. No deadlines in my head, nothing needling away at me apart from my own needles, which were, I needed to do something to fill my days because it was first when I did, when I retired, I didn't have much in my diary. I didn't have plans. All this business about retirement planning, I mean, I did none of that at all. And I've been very lucky that it has just evolved.

Annie Stirk [: 00:25:15

One of the key things for me with the fashion was I went to the team at York Fashion Week and said to them that there wasn't any representation for women with grey, silver and white hair and are they going to do something about it? And they said, yeah, we'd love to, it's a great idea, go off and do it. And that's when Rachel and I met. So I got in touch with Rachel, I didn't know her at the time, and I just said, look, I've got this idea. Do you fancy getting said yes straight away? And we formed silver and sassy. We put an event on for women with our silver coloured hair. It was more than a fashion show. In fact, in the end, it wasn't a fashion show. It was the most humbling experience.

Annie Stirk [: 00:26:02

I think I've probably one of the most humbling experiences I've ever had, because we got together a team of women, 14 or 15 of them, who'd never modelled before, but they all wanted to do something a bit different and that whole event just inspired them. I think every one of them wanted to achieve something and they managed to do something as a result of being on that catwalk and out of their comfort zone. We had a lady who was nearly 80 and she'd never worn very colourful clothes. And I think that was the problem as well. For a lot of women, they lose sight of themselves because they've had caring responsibilities for most of their lives and then suddenly they've come through the menopause and life staring them in the face. What do I do? And they also had lost confidence about themselves in their look, in their style. So they just weren't looking at using colourful clothes or doing anything a bit different with the hair. And we managed to get all of them in lovely bright cut clothes, pinks and oranges and greens and vivid colours.

Siobhan Daniels [: 00:27:24

But women together in a situation like that as well, an event like that, you bolster each other, don't you? And you learn from each other. And when you see that somebody else is feeling as insecure as you might be feeling about your body or yourself or the way forward in your life, it's great. And that's what I'm loving. That's why I want a community of us to bolster ourselves and support ourselves and talk to ordinary women like you and me, who are doing that for other women, because it's important. What impact did the menopause have on you and your sort of vision and feelings about life and who you were?

Annie Stirk [: 00:28:03

I found the menopause very difficult, actually. And sort of, back in my day, when I was going through the menopause, it was almost shameful to mention it. So I didn't say I was going through the menopause because that kind of meant. I don't know whether it was me telling myself that or just this unspoken thing in work, that the menopause was something that you just didn't mention, because it kind of meant that it was a visible sign of ageing, really. So I really struggled. And at the time, I was working as one of the series cooks on Gloria Honeyford's open house, which meant going to Thames television in London, which is where studio was. And I've just lost count of the number of times I got on that train to London with the most nauseous, throbbing, headache and palpitations. I went to see a consultant who, having done all the tests, told me that my heart was okay.

Annie Stirk [: 00:29:03

And I said, well, why am I getting these palpitations? He said, oh, it's just your bad luck.

Siobhan Daniels [: 00:29:09

Oh, my goodness.

Annie Stirk [: 00:29:10

Funny, it's only started since the menopause. He just said, you can't go around blaming the menopause for heart problems and palpitations, it's just your bad luck. And more or less showed me the door, and that was a few years ago, and things have changed. But I did find it really difficult because there was no real treatment, there was no real help.

Siobhan Daniels [: 00:29:33

Nobody wanted to talk about. They did it. It was like a badge of shame, like you say. But for me nowadays, I think the other elephant in the room that people don't want to talk about and are ashamed of is ageism. And I think ageism in the workplace, particularly as they're trying to encourage women to stay longer because they can't get the pension till goodness knows when, probably when they're over 70 in the future. And I think that's something that we need to talk about and to bring it to the fore. Like, women were in the workplace suffering with the menopause. There's a lot of women now in the workplace who are suffering by being denied opportunities or being bullied, and we need to talk about that.

Siobhan Daniels [: 00:30:13

We need to use our voices to talk about that as well, don't you think?

Annie Stirk [: 00:30:17

We do. It's still really difficult for women in those situations. I found all that really difficult as well. I've suffered from guys at the college that I was working at, being promoted over me. They were doing the same role. They'd been in the job years, less than I had. I'd earned my spurs. And yet I was just constantly told.

Annie Stirk [: 00:30:41

Actually, the phrase speculate to accumulate springs to mind, which was what I was told. And so I never got my associate lectureship at the particular college. And, of course, all the benefits that went with it. So it was a terrible time, really, because you were pushing against the system, it felt, with no support at all. But, yeah, the ageism problem really does exist and I think just seems, doesn't it, almost every point in a woman's life still, it has got hugely better. I do know that. I mean, now, just when I look back at how things were with career development and menopause, things are much better for women. There are lots of things in place.

Annie Stirk [: 00:31:26

It still is difficult. There's still that feeling that you've almost got to not admit to any signs of ageing or symptoms of ageing, because we might be seen as not suitable for a particular role.

Siobhan Daniels [: 00:31:41

But I now keep shouting from the rooftop, I'm old. This is, what, 64? I'll be 65 in July. This is what it looks like. And I want to keep saying I'm old at heart, because old is good. We don't need to bring in young for everything to validate how we are. No. And I love that you're hosting these events, women. You're doing another one in October.

Annie Stirk [: 00:32:05

Yes, it's on Tuesday, October the first. Yes. Called find your midlife magic. But at the first event that we had, Shiva, we had a whole spread of age ranges over 70 as well. I think there was someone there who was 80, so it doesn't really matter. It's just the title for the day, really. But there's something for everybody and everybody who comes along. We want people to want the women to just really feel empowered, that they have a voice.

Annie Stirk [: 00:32:38

We're there to support, and we're there to say, look, it's okay, we're with you. You can do anything that you want. And of course, we're looking forward to having you as one of our keynote speakers. Siobhan.

Siobhan Daniels [: 00:32:51

I know. I'm looking forward to just being amongst all these women. I find when I go to events like yours, it just fills my battery. It makes me feel positive. It makes me feel more positive about what I'm doing to get women in their 60s seen and heard and validated. And I know from what we're doing, what you're doing, and Rachel and myself and other people are doing that. It is giving women confidence and it is important that we keep having our voices heard. People say, oh, my goodness, women are finding their voices in their 60s.

Siobhan Daniels [: 00:33:26

No, we've always had our voice, but we want it heard now.

Annie Stirk [: 00:33:30

Yeah, no, exactly. And I think the way to do it is to collaborate with each other, team up with each other and have events and just shout from the rooftops, really, because we've got so much to offer, haven't we? I suppose it's the ex teacher in me as well. I love working with young people and you both get something out of it, don't you?

Siobhan Daniels [: 00:33:53

But that is the solution for me, is that intergenerational conversation, we need to encourage it even more because we can learn from them and they can learn from us. It's not an either or pitting each other.

Annie Stirk [: 00:34:07

No. It's such a good link up and it's quite joyful, isn't it, being with young people? It's fun and it's interesting and frustrating at times, but I just absolutely love it. I just love that. And yes, I think the young people do too, as well. And I don't know since COVID when lots of young people found the time was really difficult for them, being stuck at home. And now the legacy of that is that some young people are struggling, aren't they, with mental health issues, struggling to find a place in the real world again in a way that they probably were doing before COVID struck. So I think we've got a lot to offer that age group.

Siobhan Daniels [: 00:34:55

Well, they love to see women like us grabbing life and running with it and being vibrant and keeping fit because fitness is so important, the older you get. I'm skipping every day now. I was rubbish at when I got the skipping rope and I thought, oh, this is going to be easy.

Annie Stirk [: 00:35:13

I could do about three or four.

Siobhan Daniels [: 00:35:15

To begin with, but things like, just basic things like that, to keep fit. Not to keep up with the young people, but to show them you don't necessarily have to slow down. You can keep up with things. I ran a marathon when I was 55. I ran one at 53 and one at 55 with my daughter, who was in her thirty s. And it's those kind of things that both the young and the old we can do together.

Annie Stirk [: 00:35:41

Yeah, no, we can. It's empowering on both sides, isn't it? Both a lot to learn from each side. So, yeah, now I'm all for that. It's brilliant.

Siobhan Daniels [: 00:35:51

Now, this podcast is called Retirement rebel Life after 60. And I ask all my guests one particular question, and that is, when was the last time that you felt rebellious or you were rebellious? When did you feel like a rebel?

Annie Stirk [: 00:36:08

It's funny, you might not be surprised at me saying this, coming from the same school as we went through, but I actually have lots of rebellious moments throughout my life. And I find that sort of grumpy old man syndrome that we often joke about. I sometimes feel a little bit like that because I think when you do get to a certain age, as we are, we've kind of seen a lot, haven't we? We've done a lot, shared a lot. And sometimes I just get annoyed about things and just want to shake things up. Just small things, really. But, yeah, I think it's more kind of rebellious interest throughout my life rather than one big thing.

Siobhan Daniels [: 00:36:54

I definitely think my schooling at the strict catholic convent school and some of those nuns, I think that ignited my rebellious streak for the rest of my life, if I'm honest, I don't know about you. Yeah.

Annie Stirk [: 00:37:08

No, I mean, it probably does come from there, because a lot of it seems so unfair, didn't it? The way we were treated and the way those lovely nuns were with us. It was really difficult. It makes you think, God, I'm not going to be spoken to like that. You might be the headmistress, but who do you think you're calling?

Siobhan Daniels [: 00:37:34

But you know what? I wonder what they would make of us nowadays, being the ages that we are and doing what we're doing. They'd be outraged, wouldn't they?

Annie Stirk [: 00:37:44

They probably would. I mean, there just never seemed any empathy at mean. It's a terrible thing to talk about them like this, isn't it? Because now I'm feeling really guilty, Siobhan, I'm talking about them.

Siobhan Daniels [: 00:37:57

Oh, I've carried that good line of guilt. No, but what I think is, though, we're finding the goodness in life and kindness and sharing and helping other women. So we are the values, really. We've kept the values from the school, but we've not accepted being spoken to or being treated in a certain way throughout our lives. And the older you get, the more I'm not.

Annie Stirk [: 00:38:22

Yeah. No, it was a terrible thing to experience some of that because they didn't seem as though they wanted to know you or get to know you or have any fun with you at all. It was all very disciplinarian attitude, wasn't it? You couldn't even talk in the refectory, could you? I don't know whether to change by the time you.

Siobhan Daniels [: 00:38:45

No, you couldn't talk, but we couldn't.

Annie Stirk [: 00:38:47

Speak at lunchtime and I was just a terrible giggler. So as soon as we got into the chapel on a Friday afternoon, or as soon as I was in the refectory, not able to speak, I just got the terrible giggles and I just kind of rebelled against all that because it just seemed so pointless, wasn't it? I know that strict, archaic way of dealing with people, it's just terrible.

Siobhan Daniels [: 00:39:14

But it does show you the impact that childhood and our life have on how we feel as older women. Definitely. And I do feel when I talk to a lot of women like you and me and Rachel and others, there's been things in our background in our life that seem to make us now think, heck with it, we are going to be these older women who are going to have so much fun and bring other women along with.

Annie Stirk [: 00:39:45

Absolutely. They've probably sowed the seeds, even though we kind of hated it at the time and railed against it. Yeah, they've made us who we are. Siobhan and I like who we are.

Siobhan Daniels [: 00:39:59

We're going to keep on being silver haired rebels and championing other women as we get older. And I've absolutely loved talking to you today and thank you very much.

Annie Stirk [: 00:40:10

Thank you. No, it's been fantastic. That's been fantastic. Hope to see you before, but see you in October.

Siobhan Daniels [: 00:40:16

Yeah, definitely. I hope you enjoyed that conversation with Annie Sturk as much as I did. I wanted to take a moment to reflect on it and share with you what I'm going to take away from our chat. I learnt this, that sometimes it's just a lucky break in life that can take you on a totally different path. That's how Annie ended up going from teaching home economics to working on TV. I feel that she also showed us that you don't have to retire when people think you should, especially if you're enjoying doing what you're doing and you want to keep on working, you shouldn't feel pressured into thinking that you have to stop working. She also made me want to showcase more women who are living their best lives and not self limiting themselves in later life. It's vital that we have role models for younger women to aspire to.

Siobhan Daniels [: 00:41:07

Next week, I'll be speaking to Anna Marks. She owns holiday jeets in the south of France and hosts solo female retreats. She's the founder of the magical midlife membership, helping women to feel inspired and refired. She's one woman who's up for adventure as she approaches 60 and despite only having met me once, she recently joined me on a two week road trip in my motorhome through France. It was very enlightening for both of us and we chat about why that was and how when older women support one another, great things can happen and I hope you enjoy it. Thank you so much for joining me on today's retirement rebel Life after 60. I'm truly grateful for your time and your willingness to embark on this journey with me. If today's conversation sparks something within you, or if you've your own rebel story to share, I'd love to hear from you.

Siobhan Daniels [: 00:42:02

Please reach out through our social media channels or email and let's keep the conversation going. Email us on podcast at retirementrebel. Co. Uk and remember, if you found value in our time together today, consider sharing this episode with a friend who might also enjoy and benefit from our retirement rebel community. Spreading the word helps us grow and continue to challenge the narrative around life after 60. All of our details can be found on retirementrebel. Co. Uk.

Siobhan Daniels [: 00:42:35

Retirement Rebel Life after 60 is written and hosted by me, Siobhan Daniels and produced by the incredibly talented Matt Cheney. Join me again next week for another episode. Until then, keep embracing your inner rebel and living life to the fullest. Bye for now. It.