Age is Just a Number: Sarah Thornely's SUPer-Charged Victory

Siobhan Daniels [: 00:00:01

On today's show, I'm speaking to Sarah Thornley, who's a great inspiration to many women who want to follow their passions into later life. We discussed how she didn't let age deter her from competing in and actually winning the national standup paddleboarding championships in the U. K. When she was in her 60s. We also talked about how life can change dramatically once your children have grown up. So Sarah has taken on so many new roles, including broadcasting live from paddleboarding events. But before we get started, can I ask that you give us a follow on your podcast app or Instagram? Now let's get on with the podcast. Welcome to retirement.

Siobhan Daniels [: 00:00:41

Rebel Life after 60. I'm your host, Siobhan Daniels. Join me on a journey to meet inspiring rebels who've redefined retirement. Together, we'll explore new passions, triumphs over challenges, and discover the vibrant possibilities of life after 60. This is about living boldly, not just ageing. So are you ready to rebel? Last week I spoke to Helen Garlic, an author in her 60s who's all about the power of talking and connection. Her award winning book, no place to lie about the death of her sibling, has reaffirmed to her that age is a privilege. If you haven't already listened to it, I urge you to give it a listen.

Siobhan Daniels [: 00:01:23

Good morning to you.

Sarah Thornely [: 00:01:25

Good morning, Sion. Thank you so much for having me. This is really exciting. I'm excited for you.

Siobhan Daniels [: 00:01:30

Oh, thank you. Well, I was just determined to have a platform where women in the 60s could talk about and celebrate being in our sixty s. And you just sprang to mind because I've spoken to you a couple of years ago now when I did a few Instagram lives, didn't I?

Sarah Thornely [: 00:01:46

Yes, you did. And I think you've got a great platform. And, yeah, bring on those women of a certain age.

Siobhan Daniels [: 00:01:56

Well, because we are often just referred to as women over 50 or over 55, and we're in our sixty s. And we should be celebrating that, shouldn't we?

Sarah Thornely [: 00:02:05

We should really be celebrating whatever age we are. But as you say, to have that sort of cut off point of once you reach 55 that you're just this mass of an age and we're not. You look at sportspeople or anybody in their these days, every age should be celebrated.

Siobhan Daniels [: 00:02:28

Quite right. Well, thank you. Well, we'll get on to that. But first of all, just tell me a little bit about yourself, your background. Where did you grow up? Were you a sporty child? How did you get into being more sporty as you got older?

Sarah Thornely [: 00:02:41

Well, I was born in Guilford, Surrey, so I still live very locally, so it's my hometown and I still love it bits. My father still lived in the house that we were brought up in. I was a very sporty child. I mean, I'm built for sport and I just let that disappear later on in life. Very sporty as a young kid. Played soccer and cricket with the boys. Just loved it. Loved being with the boys.

Sarah Thornely [: 00:03:03

And then when I got to be a teenager, I kept up at a skiing, but I just sort of drifted. Typical teenager, want to do other things, so didn't really get into any sport, particularly, which is a great shame. I then met my first husband, I then got married and I then had children and I just really didn't do. I do admire all these mummies today, with all out running with their babies and everything. I just went a little bit in on myself.

Siobhan Daniels [: 00:03:30

Do you find a lot of women do forget themselves when they become parents?

Sarah Thornely [: 00:03:35

Definitely, yes. As far as I was concerned. I think it's a bit of a cliche, but I was just mummy. And your husband calls you mummy. Go and ask mummy. You just become a mummy. And don't get me wrong, I absolutely loved that job. I was very blessed to be able to stay at home, look after my children, bring them up as we wanted to do.

Sarah Thornely [: 00:03:56

And I feel very blessed that I could do that. But you do just lose yourself a little bit. And I think these days women appear to be out just. They just drag their babies anywhere. And I love it. I love that you see women dragging their babies around the world or onto the football pitch or whatever. It's not what I did.

Siobhan Daniels [: 00:04:15

No, but I think when I was a mum, I was a single mum for many years. I did put what I wanted to do in my life on the back burner, out of choice. I thoroughly enjoyed, like you said, being a mum, but I did lose myself and the beauty. Now, in my 60s, I'm genuinely rediscovering so many things that I'm doing now that I wanted to do the travelling, even simple things like lying down and looking at the clouds in the sky. I used to do that a lot when I was younger and I stopped doing it for over 40 years. Now I'm that mad woman when you're walking through the park that's lying on the grass, just staring up at the clouds. But I'm living and I'm loving it. So you had your children, you went on, you got divorced then, didn't you?

Sarah Thornely [: 00:04:56

Yes, I had my children, brought them up. They were sort of both teenagers. My daughter had just been on her gap year and everything and don't get me wrong again, I had a very lovely, lucky marriage, loved my husband but I had changed. Looking back on it I feel I morphed into his world rather than me keep my identity. Anyway, he was much more mature, not in age but in the way his mannerisms. He's much more mature, quite conservative and I was this sort of free spirited, quite artistic girl when I was sort of 16 1718 and I sort of just again happily morphed into his more grown up world. Loved it at the time but again children grew up and I just thought where am I? Who am I?

Siobhan Daniels [: 00:05:45

And yeah, you want to repurpose, don't you?

Sarah Thornely [: 00:05:47

Absolutely. And I knew that. I just thought I've got to go because I was deeply, deeply unhappy and I sort of suppressed it all. I didn't really speak to any friends about it because I knew that if I voiced it it would suddenly be quite real which I guess would be quite a scary thing. So I just kept it very, very quiet and just thought that when my son was finished with schooling that I would just go. And I just thought I don't care where I go, what I have, I just know that I'll be much happier even on my own.

Siobhan Daniels [: 00:06:14

That's a bit like me, really. I knew when I headed off I didn't know where I was going, what I was going to do, I was on my own but I knew I would be happier and that's a great feeling, is it, when you're searching for your happy place?

Sarah Thornely [: 00:06:26

Absolutely. In retrospect, when I did go I had a lot of friends who were saying, oh, that was such a brave thing to do, to leave the security of your home, your children, your partner. Quite a lifelong partner, I guess, and I just thought, I don't feel brave at all, I just know I've got to get out, I've got to get out, I've got to rediscover myself and go and do all the silly things that I don't feel I've done for many, many years. Anthony came along, my know things that I didn't ever think I would do, I did. I had a very brief affair with him. It wasn't in the grand scheme of things but I. Then just suddenly from almost one month to sort of three or four months later I was gone from the know, the family home. It was a big shock to not only my children but my husband as well because I obviously kept it very suppressed but I was gone.

Sarah Thornely [: 00:07:18

I was lucky enough to be able to go and find my own home not too far away from where they were left. The children. They just both wanted me to go because that's what they thought I wanted. It's quite a tough few months.

Siobhan Daniels [: 00:07:32

That must have been difficult. That must have been very difficult to actually leave your children. And were you judged at the time, do you think, by people for doing that?

Sarah Thornely [: 00:07:41

Absolutely. And some of those older friendships, I don't think. I probably got back one or two who just thought eight have an affair. It's something that I never thought I would do because it just sounds so wrong. When you've got children and a husband, it's not really where you want to go, but it just happened. And you can't take away that heart feeling of attraction and what's turned out into love. He's now my husband of x amount of years. So there was a deep connection there and it just happened and you don't really have any control over it.

Sarah Thornely [: 00:08:15

But it was a tough time, especially with the children saying, okay, mummy, you want to go? Off you go. And I ran very fast forward in my head, what will happen when they get married? Will I be able to come to their wedding? What if they have children? Will I be able to see their children? You have this sort of crazy head that goes on that you instantly worry is what will the future hold? But the future holds for me much better than that because my children were brought up well between me and my husband, and they came around really quickly and they absolutely adore Anthony and they're just both very sort of grounded. Pretty amazing kids, actually.

Siobhan Daniels [: 00:08:56

Do you think a lot of women stay in relationships, unhappy relationships, because they feel they'll be judged in society and because they feel that they've lost a sense of who they are and what they want in life. And you were lucky to be able to take that leap of faith.

Sarah Thornely [: 00:09:14

I think so. I think a lot of women, and I know personally people who have stayed, I know I've got those friends and I think that's incredibly sad knowing what has happened to me since I left and how I've grown and blossomed and always feel like this is the best time of my life, I think that's really sad. But you might not have the opportunities. You might not have the opportunities. Financially, it would be quite a scary place to go to just leave the security of your home and just go into the wilderness. That would be quite scary. So financially, emotionally, they might not be able to feel that they're strong enough to do it. That is a big leap, isn't it, to just leap out of that security and go.

Sarah Thornely [: 00:09:56

But to me, my happiness was much more important.

Siobhan Daniels [: 00:09:59

Yeah, I mean, it is. It is courageous to do, but like you, I just thought I had no option. I needed to find my happiness and I went off and people say to me, I was brave, and I say, no, life made me brave because I was so rock bottom I needed to go. And travelling around Great Britain in my motorhome for nearly five years now has given me that sense of identity and freedom and confidence and inner warrior. And I'm hoping by talking to women like you, we're going to help other women find their sense of courage and be brave and fearless. Now, when did things begin changing in your life? I mean, what were your 50s like when you were going through the menopause? Was that a difficult time for you? Was that a time of change for you?

Sarah Thornely [: 00:10:46

I have no recollection of the menopause and I only recently spoke to my doctor about it. I know. I think my mother was the same, actually.

Siobhan Daniels [: 00:10:55

She, unfortunately, a lot of women are.

Sarah Thornely [: 00:10:57

Yeah. And again, I think, you know, stereotypically, you believe that you're going to go through these things at certain ages, and clearly it doesn't happen like that. I don't remember that at all. And maybe that's because I was with Anthony, I was with a new love, I was finding a new sport and passion, and maybe it just didn't register with me that that is what would happen. So the 50s for me were, were an amazing time. Apart from having my children, being married the first time, and all that that brings. That's joyous, isn't it, when you go through that? But for me, this has been, I guess it's just been quite life changing and life affirming, and I found my voice and I just absolutely love what I do. I think the 50s has been fab for me.

Siobhan Daniels [: 00:11:41

You found your sport, you said there, you found your passion, and that's what I'm all about. As people age, it doesn't mean that you forget things. You can actually rediscover things or find your passions. Tell me about what happened with you and how you discovered sup, and how old you were when it. Because you're still rediscovering aspects of it now, aren't you, in your.

Sarah Thornely [: 00:12:04

So I found Stanley paddleboarding. A good friend of mine was doing it and I was very intrigued by it because I just hadn't been sporty. I've been to the gym all the time. That was something that I did on a regular basis. So that's what I loved. I loved sort of strength work, but I didn't have a sport. I rode for five years with my daughter. That was lovely.

Sarah Thornely [: 00:12:22

But that then passed, and I was watching a friend. I was just intrigued. So I went and had a go, had a lesson and loved it. Absolutely loved it.

Siobhan Daniels [: 00:12:30

How old were you at this time?

Sarah Thornely [: 00:12:32

So I was 52. Angelina and I got married. Having been together for a few years, we decided to get married. We went to Dahab in Egypt, and I tried it again, and I just loved it. I just felt that I sort of clicked with it. Winter came, and obviously, being a newbie, I just thought, why on earth would people want to paddle in the winter? It looks grim. So I didn't paddle in the winter. But then that Christmas, so just having been married for three months, I had a really serious stomach issue.

Sarah Thornely [: 00:13:03

I didn't know what it was, but it turned out to be a twisted colon, which I've now found out that it can be very life threatening. People do die of a twisted colon. Had a life saving operation a couple of days before Christmas. Spent my first Christmas as a newlywed with my second husband. Separated in the hospital. They all came around my hospital bed on Christmas day. And obviously things like that make you go, right, we need to get on with our life now, because life's too short.

Siobhan Daniels [: 00:13:33

And it shows you how quickly things can be taken away from you, doesn't it? So you need to live life to the full.

Sarah Thornely [: 00:13:39

Yeah, I could have just gone just like that. Hadn't really done a great deal, I guess, for myself during my life. That's sort of how I felt. Nothing really personal to me. So I just thought, right when I'm fit, I'm going to get my feet back on that paddleboard and see if I really love it. And it took about three months, and I finally. Maybe it was a little bit longer, but I finally sort of put my feet on that paddleboard. And as soon as I put them on there, I thought, yes, this is for me.

Sarah Thornely [: 00:14:07

So I just started. While I was sort of recuperating, I started paddling. And later that year, I actually entered a competition. It was just. Well, it was the national championships, a team event. So off I went with my lovely club, who are all my good sort of paddling buddies, and I still paddle with them now. They're fabulous. So we just went along as a team, and I just paddled.

Sarah Thornely [: 00:14:31

I had some tuition from my friend and she said, do this, do that, and whatever. I was just on an inflatable board, but I just loved it. And I sort of realised how competitive I am. I won a medal unexpectedly, but it was for an age category, and I didn't even realise that they had such a thing. I thought, you just got 1st, 2nd, 3rd. If I hadn't have got that age category prize, maybe it's just all the youngsters that got the prize because they were the fastest, perhaps. It may not have meant so much to me, but the fact is I got a prize because of my age and I felt delighted.

Siobhan Daniels [: 00:15:07

Were you one of the oldest people paddleboarding then? Did you feel that you were too old to do it, or did you feel that it was exceptional that you were that age doing it?

Sarah Thornely [: 00:15:19

I didn't feel too old to do it. I'd never really felt my age. So I was just one of the numbers, basically. But when I stood on the podium with another couple of ladies who were older than me, I just thought, oh, this is pretty cool to win a prize at this age. It's sort of really good recognition of you being able to do something against other people in your age category, which is sort of ten year age category. And I thought it was really cool.

Siobhan Daniels [: 00:15:47

To win that because it's also, as you get older and when you're in your don't think necessarily of competing in things, you think you've passed your prime. Leave it to the young people. And I think it's great to see more and more categories, older categories in various sports being celebrated.

Sarah Thornely [: 00:16:08

Absolutely. And we do have within the, especially the GB sub national series, which is our sort of homegrown national series, we do have age categories. We have up to sort of 39, then up to 49, up to 59 and beyond. And I would love to get them to a beyond. I mean, if I went racing again, I could be racing at 70, I could be getting that gong, which would be amazing.

Siobhan Daniels [: 00:16:32

That would be fabulous. But like you just mentioned there, though, it kind of goes thirty s, forty s, fifty s and beyond. And we're all corralled into this kind of 50 plus. One of the main reasons why I started this podcast, I wanted women in their sort of talk about celebrate the highs and lows of being in our sixty s. And it's important, isn't it, that we see the numbers 60 and 70 and that there are maybe those categories, although we all age differently, we're all individual, but there's something nice to be in the gang of the people that are in the feel.

Sarah Thornely [: 00:17:07

Yes. And I think you're absolutely right. And it's interesting how people think about it. Some people say, oh, I'll never do age categories. Why would I want to do that? And then when they reach that age and they realise that they cannot maybe compete against the 20 year olds, they might think about it. And I think it's great. There was a wonderful lady I met called Barbara from the United States, and I went up to watch the VA championships, the world championships held at Eaton Dawny this last year, and that is like outrigger canoe. So think Hawaii 50.

Sarah Thornely [: 00:17:37

And she was 80 something.

Siobhan Daniels [: 00:17:39

Oh, brilliant.

Sarah Thornely [: 00:17:40

And she had pushed. They're very good at recognising all age categories in that discipline because it's got such history and she was pushing for there to be an 80 plus category and she got it. She got it. She was amazing.

Siobhan Daniels [: 00:17:56

I absolutely love women like that. That's what we need. We need to celebrate more women and there are loads of us out there doing unique things and trying to be pioneering and champion for older women. And what I find interesting is that it's almost like you have to think, oh, I can't compete anymore. But when you see these categories, there's a lot of women that want to keep competing, aren't there? There are a lot of entrants for the various sports in those sixty s, seventy s, eighty s. So there is a call for it. I don't know why we don't do more.

Sarah Thornely [: 00:18:28

Yeah, I mean, maybe it's the practicalities of giving out so many medals, because it can be very time consuming. I've been there when they've been giving out age categories, 414 foot, twelve foot six inflatable. And then they've got all five age categories. It takes forever, but equally, and I'm going to blow my own trumpet a little bit here. So when I did win the national championship, so I raced for five years and just slowly got better and better. I was doing many, many races, I was doing running, cycling, so I was really fitter than I'd ever been, actually, in my life. I won the UK national championships, but I didn't win it in my age category, I won it overall. So I did actually beat.

Sarah Thornely [: 00:19:09

So at 58, I beat the youngsters. And again, at that time I was just very pleased to have won it. I was competitive. I was really trying very hard to win it. I won it.

Siobhan Daniels [: 00:19:19

That is amazing.

Sarah Thornely [: 00:19:21

Yeah, I think it was actually. It's only later on that I thought, oh, actually, that was pretty good because it wasn't just an age category thing. I actually won the whole thing. And don't get me wrong, there weren't hundreds of competitors in that field, but I won it against some really tough, tough women who I'd wanted to know. There was one, Christine, and she was just ruling the roost of that particular class. And between us, we had a bit of luck, she had a bit of bad luck and I beat her. And I never, ever thought that that would happen.

Siobhan Daniels [: 00:19:55

Did you ever face any ageism in the sport? Did you ever get people almost looking at you and dismissing you, oh, well, we'll beat her because she's nearly 60?

Sarah Thornely [: 00:20:05

No, I don't believe I did, or certainly I didn't recognise it. Someone said to me late last year on the beach, and it was a young man, and I was talking about, and I'm not sure this is ageism, but it was an interesting comment and I have to repeat it, I was talking about when I won and the fact that I had won, and he said, oh, but there was no one who was any good at that time. And I was quite horrified by that. And I thought, oh, that's actually quite rude. That's quite rude to me and that's very rude to the other people who were racing at that time because they were amazing. And it almost sort of.

Siobhan Daniels [: 00:20:44

No, that is very rude.

Sarah Thornely [: 00:20:46

Bit naughty, bit of a young upstar, and I won't give his name out.

Siobhan Daniels [: 00:20:54

Did you feel that you were flying the flag for the older woman at that time, or were you just being you competing in a sport?

Sarah Thornely [: 00:21:00

I was just being me competing in a sport. As I said, I didn't really see myself as any age in particular. But it's only now when I look back and I think, in a way, I really wish I appreciated that at that time, because I would have been all over that on social media and really flying the flag for women who were getting older and competing. And now, thanks to a good friend of mine who's really sort of poked me and sort of made me appreciate what I did, I'm now quite happy and confident to tell people what I did because I think that is quite incredible to do that, to be not just my age category, but the youngsters as well.

Siobhan Daniels [: 00:21:42

Well, when I read about it, that's one of the main reasons that I wanted you to come on here, because I thought we need more examples of women that are achieving these things. When you were approaching 60 then, were you nervous about being 60? Did it bother you or not bother you at all about being 60? And did your life change at all, or your attitude change once you hit your 60s.

Sarah Thornely [: 00:22:05

I've always tried not to let any age birthday affect me. And in our house and in our previous homes and parents and children, we've always said, it's just another day. Try to make like Christmas. Don't get worked up about Christmas Day. If you can't see somebody, it's just another day. And that's how I've sort of been about my age. But I do remember feeling slightly twitchy about being 60, but not in a big way, because I was still doing things, having started up junkie and having been writing for magazines and just appearing on podcasts like yourselves and talking to Joe and just thinking, it's better now. It's always getting better, so why should I be worried about getting older? I'm nearly knocking on 65 now, so that'll be the next sort of little twitchy moment.

Sarah Thornely [: 00:22:55

But I just think as long as you're healthy and fit, and I'm probably not probably my least healthy, actually, at the moment. Yeah, I need to get off my backside and do some exercise and whatever, but tried never to let it worry me. And that is quite freeing, isn't it?

Siobhan Daniels [: 00:23:11

Yeah. I find it very liberating. I find the more I'm getting into my 60s, like you, I'll be 65 next. The more I've got my voice and my confidence and my inner warrior, and the more I'm learning so much more in life, I seem to be absorbing so much more. My life was too frenetic before to really take note of what was going on. And I love my. Get the message out there to other women that it can be a vibrant, positive time is wonderful, I think. Now, you said there about sort of starting Sup magazine and writing, you just sort of glided past that.

Siobhan Daniels [: 00:23:47

I mean, that was a big thing. When did you do that and how did that come about?

Sarah Thornely [: 00:23:52

Well, it started, really, with Sup junkie, which was a thing. I didn't know what the thing was. I gave up racing and I just was asked help on the GB Sup events team. I raced with them for five years. They knew who I was. They knew that I was friendly, I could be a friendly face.

Siobhan Daniels [: 00:24:07

What, you raced with the GB team?

Sarah Thornely [: 00:24:09

No, not with the GB team. It's called GB Sup. So it's just.

Siobhan Daniels [: 00:24:13

Oh, right, sorry.

Sarah Thornely [: 00:24:14

No, I wasn't good enough, actually saying that. I could have done. I could have done, but I didn't. But I raced with the, sort of, the national series of Great Britain, so it's all the local races. I then went to help on their events team and it was just being a friendly face. But then on the first race, so that was 2018, I started, and the guy who was running it started doing a live feed, which we'd never had in this country, to cover stand up paddleboarding. And I happened to be on the boat taking photographs, which I love doing as well. And he just asked me to sort of hop in and out of the live feed and I absolutely loved it.

Sarah Thornely [: 00:24:48

And then he said to me, I'll go off and do some interviews and go and chat to people. I was like, what are you talking about? What do you mean interviews? What's all that about? So I just went and spoke to people and recorded it. And then the next race, he didn't want me to be on the live feed, and I was like, oh, I quite wanted to be on the live feed. And then after that, he was a race director and he just got too busy and he said, you start doing that. So I just started thinking about a couple of friends said to me, you should make this something. I guess they were thinking a little media company or anything. I was just like, I just couldn't get my head around what it should be. But she was pushing for us to help.

Sarah Thornely [: 00:25:27

There was a really big world championships coming to London and she was slightly involved in it and she was really pushing me to be picked up by them to help cover it in the UK. That didn't happen, but it meant that we were going to go and we were going to talk to them and we were going to just go. We just launched Sup Junkie, which was literally launching a website. I think I had a website then. I can't remember. Gosh, certainly had a Facebook page, had the t shirts.

Siobhan Daniels [: 00:25:54

So what is Sup junkie? Sup junkie? Is it a magazine?

Sarah Thornely [: 00:25:58

Sup, junkie is just basically all of my love being put into a community page. Community. Whatever it is, it's not a project or anything. It's just basically me sharing my love of stand up paddleboard racing in particular, and now moving on to adventures and spreading the love, basically. So that's what I do. So I will share stuff for people, I will support stuff for people. We then obviously started doing the live feeds. We do interviews now and that's what it is.

Sarah Thornely [: 00:26:28

But it's all done completely voluntary just because I absolutely am obsessed with sub racing and adventure and the people involved with it. I love to share good stories and I'll always help people who are supporting others. So if someone's doing a fundraiser, I'll support them. So it's just basically my obsessional love with the stand up paddleboarding world. We did go to that event in London, and we did cover it, and we did 32 interviews. We didn't really know what we were doing. We just ran in with our little mic and just went and spoke to people. And I can talk and I can ask questions, and I knew who these people were because I'd been following them for five years.

Sarah Thornely [: 00:27:06

When you love a sport, you generally follow the people who are at the top of their game, and they were all very happy to be interviewed. So it did sort of get us out there a little bit.

Siobhan Daniels [: 00:27:15

What would you say to anybody that's fearful of maybe embarking on a new adventure or a new sport and almost self limiting to themselves, saying, I'm too old to do that. I couldn't possibly do that. Nobody would be interested in that because those were all the thoughts that went through my head when I got my motorhome. And I went out there and I thought, I want to be a pro age campaigner. I want to challenge angels attitudes and stereotypes. And then I thought, who the heck is going to be interested? But you have to start somewhere with a certain sense of belief, don't you? What would you say to people? Because you've done it, you had an idea, you've run with it, and now it's successful.

Sarah Thornely [: 00:27:55

Gosh, I think there is that saying, isn't there, that people often try, like a new sport or try something new because they don't feel they know it. But that's true. You don't know it. Just go in to anything that you love, be it a sport or something that you're passionate about and don't believe that you know everything. You don't. You're learning and embrace that learning. I think that's what I would say, because I didn't know anything. I didn't know media, I didn't know writing, I didn't know journalism.

Sarah Thornely [: 00:28:25

I have no experience in that world at all. But I just loved the sport so much. And I can talk about it and I'm quite knowledgeable and I just thought, what can go wrong? These people are lovely and they want to talk. And a couple of times I had to be pushed. Go and speak, Tim. And I thought, oh, gosh, she's know number one in the world. What can possibly go wrong? And I'm a great believer in just ask, what can someone say? They can either say yes, or they can say no. And if they say no, you respect that, you back off.

Sarah Thornely [: 00:28:59

If they say yes, you're in there.

Siobhan Daniels [: 00:29:01

Basing your fears and doing that and approaching people and then getting them saying yes is exhilarating, isn't it?

Sarah Thornely [: 00:29:10

It is. But maybe it shouldn't be made to be such a big thing. If you strip us down to our naked bodies, we are all pretty much the same. And there's that great quote, isn't there, about if you're speaking to a group of people out in front of you, just imagine them all naked. We're all the same. I also believe that no one is better than me, no one is worse than me. We're all pretty much on a level playing field. I've never really been intimidated by people and I think that is quite a good thing because I don't want to be intimidated by people.

Sarah Thornely [: 00:29:44

They're just people. And generally people are lovely and kind and nice and if they're not, they won't be in my world. I just say, go for it.

Siobhan Daniels [: 00:29:53

I kind of think I was very nervous and intimidated. The thing is, I sound confident and I've got a very confident sounding voice, so people just assume that I'm confident. And I kind of played a role a lot. I was a nurse for nine years and I worked on intensive care. So I'd adopt this role when people sadly would come in and see their relatives on a ventilator and I tried to sound confident to explain to them what was going on. And then for years when I worked at the BBC, I sort of had this role of, hi, I'm Siobhan from the BBC and played the role when I went out there on my own to try and get my message and to approach magazines to see if I could get my story out there or be interviewed, I really did feel intimidated. I had to sort of find my inner warrior and think, like you've just said, now we're all the same when you strip us down. And I do feel that the more I've gone on in my, like you, I've got that confidence now to just approach people.

Siobhan Daniels [: 00:30:52

I do it nicely and I'm kind. And if they say yes, I'm so thrilled. And if they say no, I think, well, that's fine, just move on to the next person. But I have had to face fears and talk to myself and say, don't be silly, Siobhan, go and ask, because if you don't ask, you'll never be able to do it.

Sarah Thornely [: 00:31:12

I think what you did, Siobhan, amazing. And I think if I gave up everything and drove off in a Motorhome I'd probably have exactly the same fears as you. It's a huge thing to be able to do it and obviously you've got used to it and you're used to that life now and that's made you more confident. But I think we've got to appreciate that the older we get, generally the more confident we become. I used to see older people like much older people, a bit like Nafoldi. They'll just say anything like, oh, you can't say that, that sounds quite rude, but actually they're just speaking their mind. They're fed up with pussy footing around, with being, I don't know, they're just honest and that is the joy, isn't it, of getting older. You can just be honest with people.

Sarah Thornely [: 00:31:54

Sometimes people will say, oh, I don't want to go to that party, but I don't know what to say. And I just say, just say you don't want to go, that's all you have to say. You don't have to give an excuse, you just have to say, I don't want to go. And hopefully that friend or person will just respect that and go, they don't want to come, they don't have to give me an excuse. No is a final. Is a complete sentence. That's another one of my favourite quotes. No is a complete sentence.

Siobhan Daniels [: 00:32:17

Oh, I like that. You've got another quote that I liked. I can't remember what it was now when I was read oh, what you think of me is none of my business. Is that right?

Sarah Thornely [: 00:32:26

Yeah, absolutely. Obviously I want people to like me. I want people to like what I do and the majority of them do. There are one or two who just can't get their head around it. That's fine, I'm not their friend, but what people think of me really is not any of my business. I don't want it to get in my head. I just want me to just be able to live my life by just being me and just doing what I want to do. Life really is too short to be not wanting to do what you want to do.

Sarah Thornely [: 00:32:57

Don't let other people's thoughts of you and their perceptions of you stop you doing what you really, really want to do. It's your life.

Siobhan Daniels [: 00:33:05

I think there are situations in life though where people self limit themselves and stop themselves from doing things. But do you think that society in general is ageist and people, even though they get more confident when they get older, the way that the perceptions of how you age stops you from being able to age the way that you want?

Sarah Thornely [: 00:33:31

Definitely. We've all seen the photographs, haven't we? Of the 50, 60 plus, the little line drawings of a little wizard old lady at 60 plus, we're all horrified because that's really not how we look anymore. So I do believe, I mean, we are getting there, aren't we? We are getting there with models. What I love to see is a model of shape, size, colour, age, anything. She can be a model. It doesn't have to be that stereotypical anymore. Hopeful that those things are changing. But I still think we have a little way to go.

Siobhan Daniels [: 00:34:05

Do you think we have to re educate ourselves about what it means to be old and try and grasp the positives of being old? I mean, I constantly say, when I hear people say, oh, I'm young at heart, I know exactly what they're trying to relay by saying that. But I have to be careful how I say it because my daughter rolls her eyes when I start doing this. But I say, no, I'm not young at heart. I'm old at heart. I'm old. And I don't need to add in a young to say, I feel good. Old can be good, too. I'm old at heart.

Siobhan Daniels [: 00:34:42

I don't look younger than I am. What you're trying to say is, I look good. I am old. This is what 64 looks like.

Sarah Thornely [: 00:34:51

Yeah, I think that's a really good point, actually, because we do want to say we're young at heart. I think my age is just almost nothing. My age is nothing. But I love that. I love that you're old at heart. I think that's a really lovely sort of positive way to look at it, really, because you and I, we really don't want to be the bland skin 20 year old. We don't want to be that person anymore. I don't want to look like that person anymore, and I don't want to be that person anymore because who I am now is actually the best version of myself.

Sarah Thornely [: 00:35:26

So I think that's really lovely. I'm going to use that. Thank you, Siobhan. Older. Good.

Siobhan Daniels [: 00:35:31

And that's what I think. I think when we're talking to each other and we're having discussions like this, and hopefully somebody listening to this podcast will think, yeah, I'm going to start saying that old at heart. And the more it'll just permeate into the way that we talk. It's like that when people say, oh, you look good for your age. Just knock off your age, please. Just say you look good because it doesn't matter how. It's because they've got preconceived ideas of how they think. Somebody who's 64 looks or behaves.

Siobhan Daniels [: 00:36:02

And I think gradually people like you and I and all the amazing women that I'm going to be talking to on this podcast will be able to just shake it up a bit and get us to think differently. And maybe when people say, can you wear this at 60 OD? Can you do this at 60 OD? We can just show by example that we're doing it regardless of what anybody thinks and what society thinks. And we're not the only ones doing it. There's an awful lot of us doing it.

Sarah Thornely [: 00:36:29

Yeah, absolutely. And maybe when I say that I won my national championship at age 58, I won't say anything more. That's it. I won.

Siobhan Daniels [: 00:36:38

Yeah.

Sarah Thornely [: 00:36:40

I was quite old when I won it. No, I just won it.

Siobhan Daniels [: 00:36:44

No, but you could also. I was old when I won it. Not I was old. And it's like something negative to have been old where you did it. It's just I was old and I won the national championships. And it's showing people that we're doing things when we're old. We're doing the normal things when we're old. Yes.

Siobhan Daniels [: 00:37:03

If your body's letting you down or if you don't have enough money to do the kind of long adventures that you want to do, there's all things that get in the way. But predominantly, we're living life the best way that we can. And that's what as a pro age campaigner and by doing this podcast, I'm trying to do is say, let's age as positively as we can. Let's have our adventures. Let's not self limit. Let's find out what's out there for us. Getting old. And you're a great example of that.

Siobhan Daniels [: 00:37:30

You've gone and you just keep finding more and more things to do.

Sarah Thornely [: 00:37:35

Life's too short. I need to claw away at all the lovely things that I'm doing. And yes, it has got better. And maybe there are limitations, aren't there, Svaun? At any age you could be limited by the fact that you're 20 because you don't have that spare cash, you don't have the time. You might be in a relationship or be having babies. You won't have that. So there are limitations all throughout our life, but they seem to be all being lumped at the end, or 55 plus suddenly you've got all these limitations. Actually, we might not.

Sarah Thornely [: 00:38:07

We might have a bit of spare cash, we might have more time. Because I went travelling for the first time around the world. Six months backpacking when I was 50. I'd never been before. I'd never done that. I went to Bali, I went to Thailand, Australia, New Zealand. And it probably meant much more to me then than it would have done if I was 18, because I wasn't drunk every night.

Siobhan Daniels [: 00:38:34

That's exactly what I did. As I was approaching 60, I took a gap year from work. My daughter went off to university. I'd had years of being a single mother looking after her, so I thought, right, this is my time. And I packed a rucksack and headed off around the world. I went to Thailand, Laos, Cambodia, Vietnam, Australia, New Zealand, Fiji, and then went over to South America and did Brazil, Argentina, Bolivia and Peru, and then came back and went to work again.

Sarah Thornely [: 00:39:04

Amazing.

Siobhan Daniels [: 00:39:05

It does open your eyes to adventures. So you did it about the same time as me and now we're doing adventures. But what would you say to anybody approaching 60 or in their 60s? What are the highlights of being in your know, we don't talk about sort of necessarily age, but I want to highlight being in your positives of it.

Sarah Thornely [: 00:39:26

Oh, gosh, b. It's a great question. B. Just be yourself. And I think you will be growing into being yourself anyway, because at this age you do generally find that you can just be more honest. It's like you're being freed up. You can be more honest, you can be outspoken as long as you're kind, but you can just be truthful. You can just be truthful about life again, about how you feel, about how you are.

Sarah Thornely [: 00:39:52

When you're a bit younger, you might not want to let people know how you are feeling deeply, but now I can absolutely share my emotions with whoever's around, actually, be they male or female. I'm not sobbing all the time, but you have that freedom to just express yourself. I just think, embrace going into this age, because it is a wonderful, wonderful journey and it's been. Is my best time, my long may it carry on, because I'm having a ball. I'm doing things that I never, ever did as a young person. And how would it have been different if I'd done these things as a young person? I'm not sure it would have. Well, I probably would have hopefully built this massive business, but would that have been great? Because, again, what I'm doing now, I can let it go at any time. Again.

Sarah Thornely [: 00:40:45

And that's that freedom, because it's not my job. It's just something that I love. You could just stop tomorrow, couldn't you? If you really wanted to. And again, that's lovely.

Siobhan Daniels [: 00:40:54

Yeah. That's what I love about this, is that I choose to do this and I choose to do this to try and help other women find the joy in life that I've found in my 60s. But if you were talking to your younger self about being in your 60s, would you have thought that your 60s would be like they are now when you were younger? And what advice would you give to a younger person?

Sarah Thornely [: 00:41:21

I don't think I thought my 60s would be like this at all. I thought I would be happier because I was out of my first marriage and as I said earlier, I was quite deeply unhappy there. So I think I thought I'd be happier. I think I thought I'd be probably living down by the sea. I didn't realise I'd find a sport and that it would take me on this journey and that I would be at my fittest that I'd ever been. So I think I'd be telling my 20 something, hang on, girl, it's going to be good. It's going to be a good ride later on. Don't be scared.

Sarah Thornely [: 00:41:55

Don't be scared. Don't believe that you're going to be on a downward spiral, because I think these days we're all going to be on an upward spiral and we're going to find things that we love and we enjoy and I think be ready for the ride 55, 60 plus, definitely.

Siobhan Daniels [: 00:42:12

Oh, I love that. Be ready for the ride 60 plus. I love that. I'm going to use that now. I ask all my guests one question at the end of the podcast. And as a retirement rebel, I've been rebellious quite a lot in my life and now I'm really a retirement rebel is sort of what I am, an unashamedly rebellious person. And I want to ask you, when was the last time that you felt rebellious?

Sarah Thornely [: 00:42:42

Well, to truly feel rebellious is probably a little while ago. And it's probably when I left my first husband and I was with Anthony and he's a younger man, and I just did everything probably that I had never done in my teenage years. I didn't go to uni, I didn't have that experience. I literally went from my mother's bosom to my first marriage being quite conservative. And I tried everything, I smoked, I drank, I did everything possible. Very quickly realised that none of that was for me, I guess I wasn't doing it on purpose, I just did it because it's like freedom. I suddenly had this freedom. But I sort of feel in a way that I'm being a rebel every day of my life because I'm doing stuff that I never ever thought that I would be doing.

Sarah Thornely [: 00:43:27

And I absolutely love it all. I know that it brings a lot of joy to a lot of people, me sharing all my stuff, be it all sup related. And it's just lovely to be part of a fabulous community as well.

Siobhan Daniels [: 00:43:41

That's brilliant. And may you continue to be as rebellious as you can and find all the joy in life. And it's been absolutely lovely talking to you. It's been a real pleasure. Sarah, thank you very much.

Sarah Thornely [: 00:43:53

Thank you so much, Siobhan, it's been a real joy to talk to you and I'm always inspired by you, so it's been a pleasure and let's hope we can get these women feeling rebellious.

Siobhan Daniels [: 00:44:06

I hope you enjoyed the conversation with Sarah Thornley as much as I did. I wanted to take a moment to reflect on it and share with you what I'm going to take away from chatting with her. One thing I have learnt is that sometimes we need to refind ourselves as we age. Sarah talked about how lots of women can lose themselves in motherhood because they focus on their children, something that they want to do. But once the children are grown up, they can flounder. It's then that women need to look at what they really want out of life and then go for it. This can be so empowering for them. Sarah talked about leaving an unhappy marriage, something she knew that she had to do, and she went on to find her community and her happy place.

Siobhan Daniels [: 00:44:51

Paddleboarding. I've learnt through talking to her the importance of community to help make you braver. The support seems to be invaluable. Building a community is what I hope to do with this podcast. A community of retirement rebels who all support one another so that we can bring out the best in each other and learn from each other. The response to this podcast so far has been wonderful. Women have contacted me to open up about their lives, both the good bits and the bad bits of getting older and hitting their 60s. So please do get in touch, especially if you have a great, inspiring tale to tell.

Siobhan Daniels [: 00:45:28

You can contact me via my website, retirementrebel. Co. Uk so that we can connect and keep the conversations going. My mission is for women in their get their voices heard and for them to be seen. We're not going to fade into the background. Thank you so much for joining me on today's retirement rebel life after 60. I'm truly grateful for your time and your willingness to embark on this journey with me. If today's conversation sparks something within you, or if you've your own rebel story to share, I'd love to hear from you.

Siobhan Daniels [: 00:46:03

Please reach out through our social media channels or email and let's keep the conversation going. Email us on podcast at retirementrebel Co. UK and remember, if you found value in our time together today, consider sharing this episode with a friend who might also enjoy and benefit from our retirement rebel community. Spreading the word helps us grow and continue to challenge the narrative around life after 60. All of our details can be found on retirementrebels. Co. Uk. Retirement Rebel Life after 60 is written and hosted by me, Siobhan Dan, and produced by the incredibly talented Matt Cheney.

Siobhan Daniels [: 00:46:44

Join me again next week for another episode. Until then, keep embracing your inner rebel and living life to the fullest. Bye for now.